Avoiding 737 max in AA?
Oct 2, 2022, 8:42 pm
#46
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Miami & Leon, MX
Programs: UA 1K, DL GOLD, IHG LIFE PLAT, BONVOY'ED GOLD
Posts: 552
If your itinerary includes a 737 through Miami... then I got bad news for you...
Speaking of which, is there any reason why AA chose to concentrate the MAX almost out of Miami?
Speaking of which, is there any reason why AA chose to concentrate the MAX almost out of Miami?
Oct 3, 2022, 9:02 am
#47
Join Date: Jul 2018
Programs: Lifemiles, AAdvantage
Posts: 181
so please Comment,
why don’t they remove the MCAS
(they can’t, because of the design incompatibility. Mcas is an additional variable which shouldn’t be there. It was all about doing it in a rush. All of you defending Boeing are either naive or paid by Boeing. Just like they are spending millions to keep covering everything. Out of the 100 critical incidents logged post feb 2022 , 60 were of Boeing max and there is a lid on it. But this stats can easily be checked if you have the resources to.)
you don’t mind flying, it’s fine, but stop making fun of people who are aware and conscious about it
why don’t they remove the MCAS
(they can’t, because of the design incompatibility. Mcas is an additional variable which shouldn’t be there. It was all about doing it in a rush. All of you defending Boeing are either naive or paid by Boeing. Just like they are spending millions to keep covering everything. Out of the 100 critical incidents logged post feb 2022 , 60 were of Boeing max and there is a lid on it. But this stats can easily be checked if you have the resources to.)
you don’t mind flying, it’s fine, but stop making fun of people who are aware and conscious about it
A pilot worth their salt would know to counteract such pitch up maneouver (judging they're worth their salt, ofc).
Personally, i wouldnt avoid a MAX, im in fact trying to get to fly in a MAX, but from another airline..
Oct 3, 2022, 11:36 am
#48
Join Date: May 2005
Location: BTW/WAOC
Programs: QR Platinum, UA Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 265
Seriously, AA tells you exactly which 737 variant for a specific flight. Not sure which search engine you have been using. FYI, I am an OWE and I fly AA regularly and I have been 100% successful in avoiding the MAX on AA (or, occasionally UA). In the US, the only airlines which makes it hard to know which variants of 737 they fly, is, maybe, only Southwest.
Oct 3, 2022, 12:37 pm
#49
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: PHX
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,377
I know this is the wrong forum for this,but you're right. MCAS was entirely unneeded, all that was needed was a waiver. And the reason is simple: Newton's 3rd law of physics. Stronger engines will increase pitch as an effect due increased thrust, which, with the way the engines are placed, will create an even bigger pitch (and increased angle of attack, with an increased risk of stall under certain rare conditions).
A pilot worth their salt would know to counteract such pitch up maneouver (judging they're worth their salt, ofc).
Personally, i wouldnt avoid a MAX, im in fact trying to get to fly in a MAX, but from another airline..
A pilot worth their salt would know to counteract such pitch up maneouver (judging they're worth their salt, ofc).
Personally, i wouldnt avoid a MAX, im in fact trying to get to fly in a MAX, but from another airline..
Oct 3, 2022, 2:16 pm
#50
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: KHOU/KIAH
Programs: AA EXP | Marriott Bonvoy Titanium| Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 11,248
I know this is the wrong forum for this,but you're right. MCAS was entirely unneeded, all that was needed was a waiver. And the reason is simple: Newton's 3rd law of physics. Stronger engines will increase pitch as an effect due increased thrust, which, with the way the engines are placed, will create an even bigger pitch (and increased angle of attack, with an increased risk of stall under certain rare conditions).
A pilot worth their salt would know to counteract such pitch up maneouver (judging they're worth their salt, ofc).
Personally, i wouldnt avoid a MAX, im in fact trying to get to fly in a MAX, but from another airline..
A pilot worth their salt would know to counteract such pitch up maneouver (judging they're worth their salt, ofc).
Personally, i wouldnt avoid a MAX, im in fact trying to get to fly in a MAX, but from another airline..
The issue wasn't MCAS as a concept - it's pretty basic stuff that many other FBW aircraft also have. It just was implemented so atrociously that in non-perfect conditions, it flipped out.
Whoever signed off on a flight control system using a single sensor is an idiot.
Oct 3, 2022, 2:46 pm
#51
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: PHX
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,377
The Max is a POS, pure and simple...a great A/C company would have ditched it and and moved on to more elegant designs.
For AA it's certainly about money.
Realistically, it probably won't crash so much anymore, although I guess only time will tell....
Oct 3, 2022, 2:59 pm
#52
Join Date: Jul 2018
Programs: Lifemiles, AAdvantage
Posts: 181
That's not the conclusion that the FAA and other governing bodies came to.
The issue wasn't MCAS as a concept - it's pretty basic stuff that many other FBW aircraft also have. It just was implemented so atrociously that in non-perfect conditions, it flipped out.
Whoever signed off on a flight control system using a single sensor is an idiot.
The issue wasn't MCAS as a concept - it's pretty basic stuff that many other FBW aircraft also have. It just was implemented so atrociously that in non-perfect conditions, it flipped out.
Whoever signed off on a flight control system using a single sensor is an idiot.
Oct 3, 2022, 3:13 pm
#53
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SNA
Posts: 928
I think you should avoid flying any airline where you and I might be competing for the same upgrade seat.
Oct 3, 2022, 3:21 pm
#54
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: KHOU/KIAH
Programs: AA EXP | Marriott Bonvoy Titanium| Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 11,248
I'm not certain if you fully understand FBW, but in this instance: it was NOT. In any event, the OP, and I hate to mention it, I said the same a couple of years ago on this very forum....long before the Monday morning quarterbacks took up the cause.
The Max is a POS, pure and simple...a great A/C company would have ditched it and and moved on to more elegant designs.
For AA it's certainly about money.
Realistically, it probably won't crash so much anymore, although I guess only time will tell....
The Max is a POS, pure and simple...a great A/C company would have ditched it and and moved on to more elegant designs.
For AA it's certainly about money.
Realistically, it probably won't crash so much anymore, although I guess only time will tell....
Right. I don't recall an a321 (jog my memory, if you would please), but I do remember a QF a333 that experienced something similar.
Oct 3, 2022, 4:08 pm
#55
Join Date: Jul 2018
Programs: Lifemiles, AAdvantage
Posts: 181
You can assuredly take it up with the FAA, EASA and others; they seem to think MCAS or some form of protection was needed. The concept isn't materially different than ADIRU or any other form of envelope protection.
Right. I don't recall an a321 (jog my memory, if you would please), but I do remember a QF a333 that experienced something similar.
Right. I don't recall an a321 (jog my memory, if you would please), but I do remember a QF a333 that experienced something similar.
Last edited by Etheereal; Oct 3, 2022 at 4:43 pm
Oct 3, 2022, 4:27 pm
#56
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
All the JFK-PHX direct flights are on MAX-8s. I just changed my flight to EWR-PHX. That's on an Airbus, so wider seats in coach anyway, even ignoring the MAX issues.
Oct 3, 2022, 4:41 pm
#57
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: KHOU/KIAH
Programs: AA EXP | Marriott Bonvoy Titanium| Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 11,248
albeit both AoA probes were blocked here
Oct 3, 2022, 4:42 pm
#58
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: KHOU/KIAH
Programs: AA EXP | Marriott Bonvoy Titanium| Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 11,248
Oct 3, 2022, 4:54 pm
#59
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
Oct 3, 2022, 8:18 pm
#60
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Usually in SAN or Central Europe.
Programs: AA:EXP/1MM. Accor/Radisson:Silver; HH:Gold; ICH:Plt Amb.
Posts: 22,307
I try to avoid both the MAX and regular 738 on AA as much as possible. Only one decent row of MCE seating. SNA went almost all 738 flying earlier this year, whereas SAN has mostly remained 321s. The only way I'll fly out of SNA now with AA is if there is a really good fare, even though I like the airport better than SAN.