ARCHIVE: 2018 HELP DESK: MileSAAver / SAAver award questions, assistance
Dec 24, 2018, 8:12 am
#586
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
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Dec 24, 2018, 8:15 am
#587
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AY+ Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,846
"Agents are seriously driving me nuts with their made up rules." = placing the blame in the wrong place, that's the only way they are supposed to search now, the full journey:
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1072268510561214470
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1072268510561214470
And will searching only for the full journey allow mixed cabin bookings/where one leg is a voluntary downgrade? How does the agent book that without going segment by segment?
Dec 24, 2018, 8:20 am
#588
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That's exactly the instruction that went out; customer requests award for XXX-ZZZ, you query XXX-ZZZ, period.
Dec 24, 2018, 8:39 am
#589
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AY+ Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,846
I understand the instruction. I am just not sure what it’s trying to achieve other than limiting the ability of customers to book otherwise valid routings. It also seems like it might cause issues in changing awards, where I want to retain the originally booked flights but add a segment or segments, which in the past was possible but now seems like it might require redepositing everything and starting over.
Dec 24, 2018, 8:39 am
#590
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 877
I can confirm LATAM awards via BA/QF engines from A to B. And then AA flights on aa.com from B to C.
Are you honestly telling me AA now ties their award inventory to their partners not bookable online?
Thats even more restrictive than DL
Dec 24, 2018, 8:54 am
#591
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https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...-segments.html
but how does it practically work for itineraries for partners not bookable online like LATAM?
I can confirm LATAM awards via BA/QF engines from A to B. And then AA flights on aa.com from B to C.
Are you honestly telling me AA now ties their award inventory to their partners not bookable online?
Thats even more restrictive than DL
Dec 24, 2018, 9:12 am
#592
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AY+ Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,846
That goes back to married segments 101
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...-segments.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...-segments.html
Now, my understanding of married segments is not to limit options between two points to only those that AA’s system will show in a search (even when booking a revenue ticket, AA’s system won’t show all available routings or options). The problem is compounded when you want to mix cabins or carriers on the same ticket—which AA’s award rules certainly allow, but this new rule seems to overly curtail.
Last edited by flyingeph12; Dec 24, 2018 at 9:14 am Reason: Grammar...and fat thumbs
Dec 24, 2018, 9:27 am
#593
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I guess my definition of “married segments” is narrower than the way AA is implementing it. My understanding is that if segments are married, they must be booked together and cannot be broken. The idea is to increase multi-stop availability from certain cities (perhaps competing airlines’ hubs) without increasing availability from AA’s own hubs (which the married segments itinerary naturally would connect through).
Now, my understanding of married segments is not to limit options between two points to only those that AA’s system will show in a search (even when booking a revenue ticket, AA’s system won’t show all available routings or options). ...
But, in reality, combined with-- and greatly amplified by-- this recent dictum to AAgents, this whole thing is-- as you and all others here realize-- a colossally bad development that people (including myself) are slowly starting to come to terms with.
Dec 24, 2018, 12:55 pm
#594
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 877
I definitely know what you mean. My -personal- opinion is that perhaps some of the bloggers that introduced this development *might* have been mislead/fooled by AA PR's description of it to them-- that is to say, as if it was a good thing. And that kinda soaked in a bit even though the reality started to show up pretty soon thereafter, that AA's "take" on this was utter b*****t. Again, personal opinion on all that.
But, in reality, combined with-- and greatly amplified by-- this recent dictum to AAgents, this whole thing is-- as you and all others here realize-- a colossally bad development that people (including myself) are slowly starting to come to terms with.
But, in reality, combined with-- and greatly amplified by-- this recent dictum to AAgents, this whole thing is-- as you and all others here realize-- a colossally bad development that people (including myself) are slowly starting to come to terms with.
For example, If CX releases space from KUL-HKG-ORD and I find AA space from ORD-AUS on aa.com, AA agents can potentially not be allowed to book them if they search KUL-AUS. Somehow, adding the CX flights to your itinerary makes the AA flights dissapear.
Dec 24, 2018, 1:02 pm
#595
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 877
Another issue I have is the agents inability to see the same number of options as shown on aa.com
It appears that they’re using a different search as an agent told me or their search results are limited to only a fixed number of results.
In a very recent experience, multiple agents kept telling me MCO-DFW-AUS was zeroed and showed no saver space. I was able to find multiple options via aa.com and went as far as putting them on hold.
not only are they enforcing draconian married segment rules, but AA seems to be limiting what agents are able to book
It appears that they’re using a different search as an agent told me or their search results are limited to only a fixed number of results.
In a very recent experience, multiple agents kept telling me MCO-DFW-AUS was zeroed and showed no saver space. I was able to find multiple options via aa.com and went as far as putting them on hold.
not only are they enforcing draconian married segment rules, but AA seems to be limiting what agents are able to book
Dec 24, 2018, 4:42 pm
#596
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AA EXP & Life Plat; AA 4MM; TWA Life Plat; HH Diamond
Posts: 1,109
A few things I've done with this over the last two or three months to get around some of this:
1) when prompted by an agent to do so where they couldn't see the segment on their system to upgrade up to U class from T in a previously mixed award reservation, I booked the segment, held the record on aa.com and gave them the new PNR - and then they combined the record somehow to upgrade the original record.
2) I've also been instructed it's ok to book the AA segments available online (like say jfk-lax-hkg) and then call them to add the unbookable segments (e.g. CX hkg-tpe)
3) I have in the last 5 days fed an agent individual CX segments (jfk-hkg-xxx) when they didn't find it initially on their system. This was a CX/KA only booking.
Notwithstanding the commentary around compromising the agents, this is all within the routing rules and in my view very reasonable as I do not believe the following things should be considered controversial:
1) Upgrading a coach segment on a Biz/First award where the segment is available alone or paired in (other) multi-segment award trips
2) Stringing together AA and non-AA partner flights where I strongly suspect the system can't possibly consider all combinations (they already have a fairly new rule to limit one way awards to 4 segments)
3) Pulling together segments individually for partner flights which you can't book online
My view is, I've earned the miles, the flights are within rules and agents are willing to undertake the transactions - there is nothing wrong with this approach.
1) when prompted by an agent to do so where they couldn't see the segment on their system to upgrade up to U class from T in a previously mixed award reservation, I booked the segment, held the record on aa.com and gave them the new PNR - and then they combined the record somehow to upgrade the original record.
2) I've also been instructed it's ok to book the AA segments available online (like say jfk-lax-hkg) and then call them to add the unbookable segments (e.g. CX hkg-tpe)
3) I have in the last 5 days fed an agent individual CX segments (jfk-hkg-xxx) when they didn't find it initially on their system. This was a CX/KA only booking.
Notwithstanding the commentary around compromising the agents, this is all within the routing rules and in my view very reasonable as I do not believe the following things should be considered controversial:
1) Upgrading a coach segment on a Biz/First award where the segment is available alone or paired in (other) multi-segment award trips
2) Stringing together AA and non-AA partner flights where I strongly suspect the system can't possibly consider all combinations (they already have a fairly new rule to limit one way awards to 4 segments)
3) Pulling together segments individually for partner flights which you can't book online
My view is, I've earned the miles, the flights are within rules and agents are willing to undertake the transactions - there is nothing wrong with this approach.
Last edited by nyc6035; Dec 24, 2018 at 5:09 pm
Dec 24, 2018, 5:39 pm
#597
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..Notwithstanding the commentary around compromising the agents, this is all within the routing rules and in my view very reasonable as I do not believe the following things should be considered controversial:
1) Upgrading a coach segment on a Biz/First award where the segment is available alone or paired in (other) multi-segment award trips
2) Stringing together AA and non-AA partner flights where I strongly suspect the system can't possibly consider all combinations (they already have a fairly new rule to limit one way awards to 4 segments)
3) Pulling together segments individually for partner flights which you can't book online
My view is, I've earned the miles, the flights are within rules and agents are willing to undertake the transactions - there is nothing wrong with this approach.
1) Upgrading a coach segment on a Biz/First award where the segment is available alone or paired in (other) multi-segment award trips
2) Stringing together AA and non-AA partner flights where I strongly suspect the system can't possibly consider all combinations (they already have a fairly new rule to limit one way awards to 4 segments)
3) Pulling together segments individually for partner flights which you can't book online
My view is, I've earned the miles, the flights are within rules and agents are willing to undertake the transactions - there is nothing wrong with this approach.
Dec 25, 2018, 6:11 pm
#598
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: PHL
Programs: HH Lifetime Diamond, AA EXP, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 586
Ok, another question i feel dumb asking - but i can't figure it out. I presume it may have to do with married segment logic, but i honestly don't know.
So with specifics.
Looking at expert flyer i found
MAD --> LIS --> PHL on June 27th. IB 8736 Connecting to AA 259. When i see that on EF, it shows up as U3/T7.
However, when i look at just LIS --> PHL it's U0/T7 for that date.
Then to make matters weirder, when i search on AA, a few random MAD --> JFK combinations show up, but the U availability connecting from MAD or direct from LIS is not there.
So with specifics.
Looking at expert flyer i found
MAD --> LIS --> PHL on June 27th. IB 8736 Connecting to AA 259. When i see that on EF, it shows up as U3/T7.
However, when i look at just LIS --> PHL it's U0/T7 for that date.
Then to make matters weirder, when i search on AA, a few random MAD --> JFK combinations show up, but the U availability connecting from MAD or direct from LIS is not there.
Dec 25, 2018, 6:37 pm
#599
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 877
A few things I've done with this over the last two or three months to get around some of this:
1) when prompted by an agent to do so where they couldn't see the segment on their system to upgrade up to U class from T in a previously mixed award reservation, I booked the segment, held the record on aa.com and gave them the new PNR - and then they combined the record somehow to upgrade the original record.
2) I've also been instructed it's ok to book the AA segments available online (like say jfk-lax-hkg) and then call them to add the unbookable segments (e.g. CX hkg-tpe)
3) I have in the last 5 days fed an agent individual CX segments (jfk-hkg-xxx) when they didn't find it initially on their system. This was a CX/KA only booking.
Notwithstanding the commentary around compromising the agents, this is all within the routing rules and in my view very reasonable as I do not believe the following things should be considered controversial:
1) Upgrading a coach segment on a Biz/First award where the segment is available alone or paired in (other) multi-segment award trips
2) Stringing together AA and non-AA partner flights where I strongly suspect the system can't possibly consider all combinations (they already have a fairly new rule to limit one way awards to 4 segments)
3) Pulling together segments individually for partner flights which you can't book online
My view is, I've earned the miles, the flights are within rules and agents are willing to undertake the transactions - there is nothing wrong with this approach.
1) when prompted by an agent to do so where they couldn't see the segment on their system to upgrade up to U class from T in a previously mixed award reservation, I booked the segment, held the record on aa.com and gave them the new PNR - and then they combined the record somehow to upgrade the original record.
2) I've also been instructed it's ok to book the AA segments available online (like say jfk-lax-hkg) and then call them to add the unbookable segments (e.g. CX hkg-tpe)
3) I have in the last 5 days fed an agent individual CX segments (jfk-hkg-xxx) when they didn't find it initially on their system. This was a CX/KA only booking.
Notwithstanding the commentary around compromising the agents, this is all within the routing rules and in my view very reasonable as I do not believe the following things should be considered controversial:
1) Upgrading a coach segment on a Biz/First award where the segment is available alone or paired in (other) multi-segment award trips
2) Stringing together AA and non-AA partner flights where I strongly suspect the system can't possibly consider all combinations (they already have a fairly new rule to limit one way awards to 4 segments)
3) Pulling together segments individually for partner flights which you can't book online
My view is, I've earned the miles, the flights are within rules and agents are willing to undertake the transactions - there is nothing wrong with this approach.
what do you make up of the following scenario?
i booked the following over the phone
A-B on CX F (or any other partner not bookable via aa.com)
B-C on AA U
C-D on AA T
Down the road, I am able to find B-C-D In bucket U via aa.com, but phone agents tell me they can’t.
In your opinion, What are my options when agents don’t see the same space and you’re trying to upgrade a segment involving partners and AA metal?
is it allowed for me to put the B-C-D In bucket on hold and ask them to merge it? An agent tried this for over an hour and she wasn’t successful. She said her help desk could attach the itinerary to a CX segment if CX space was available, but it isn’t.
Dec 25, 2018, 9:44 pm
#600
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AA EXP & Life Plat; AA 4MM; TWA Life Plat; HH Diamond
Posts: 1,109
thank you your feedback!
what do you make up of the following scenario?
i booked the following over the phone
A-B on CX F (or any other partner not bookable via aa.com)
B-C on AA U
C-D on AA T
Down the road, I am able to find B-C-D In bucket U via aa.com, but phone agents tell me they can’t.
In your opinion, What are my options when agents don’t see the same space and you’re trying to upgrade a segment involving partners and AA metal?
is it allowed for me to put the B-C-D In bucket on hold and ask them to merge it? An agent tried this for over an hour and she wasn’t successful. She said her help desk could attach the itinerary to a CX segment if CX space was available, but it isn’t.
If B-C-D are different flights from the original booking - it's going to be tougher. I might try to book b-c-d myself on aa.com and then call in and ask them to be combined....but it's the luck of the draw on getting that to work. I would try DFW office hours for the best chances for that to happen. If you try that, at least you aren't messing up the original record. Alternatively you could try to cancel the a-b segment...but I'm not in love with the chances of the CX F seating coming back into inventory - AT ALL.
Your situation is a PERFECT example of what's wrong with this married segment cr*p. If you've already booked the award and improvements pop up segment to segment - there shouldn't be a penalty to improve the reservation - you already have confirmed space on the flight. That's particularly true when there is partner carrier inventory involved which probably doesn't have much married segment logic built to begin with.
I wish I had he magic potion to solve this...but my best luck has been with patience - calling in the daytime - and multiple calls. I would say the skill set of folks servicing the call varies...so this may be part of the problem. Given that you see the segment available online I see no problem at all calling EVERYDAY until it's addressed...given that you have zero way of knowing what's valid vs. invalid with married segment logic from using aa.com.
Best of luck.