Rumor: Project Oasis retrofitting reversal???
#151
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott Bonvoy titanium
Posts: 537
I’m exp and I avg 60% plus domestic upgrades. I use swu upgrades internationally. My home airport is rdu and I’m 95% on upgrading to lhr
But the argument by new York George that exp or ck don’t sit in y seats just isn’t accurate. We do sit in y and we suffer
Leaving a job because of paid j vs y is kind of silly. A job is more than a few hours on a plane
But the argument by new York George that exp or ck don’t sit in y seats just isn’t accurate. We do sit in y and we suffer
Leaving a job because of paid j vs y is kind of silly. A job is more than a few hours on a plane
#152
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wesley Chapel, FL
Programs: American Airlines
Posts: 30,013
#153
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: SFO/STS
Programs: AA EXP, HH Diamond
Posts: 396
I’m exp and I avg 60% plus domestic upgrades. I use swu upgrades internationally. My home airport is rdu and I’m 95% on upgrading to lhr
But the argument by new York George that exp or ck don’t sit in y seats just isn’t accurate. We do sit in y and we suffer
Leaving a job because of paid j vs y is kind of silly. A job is more than a few hours on a plane
But the argument by new York George that exp or ck don’t sit in y seats just isn’t accurate. We do sit in y and we suffer
Leaving a job because of paid j vs y is kind of silly. A job is more than a few hours on a plane
#154
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Programs: JAL Global Club & oneworld Sapphire, ANA SFC & Star Alliance Gold
Posts: 3,746
#155
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: AAdvantage PP
Posts: 13,913
If there's one thing we do know - it's that AA is run by beancounters who want to squeeze as much revenue as possible out of every flight, customer comfort or loyalty be damned. JFK-ZRH was moved to PHL. I have no doubt that this was a profitable route for AA out of JFK. But, they must have calculated that it could be more profitable from PHL which has little competition and more connecting flow.
FTs do not seem to understand Parker is not in the "appearance business." That doesn't sway his thinking. Now whether the moves he is making will be successful is another thing. The numbers so far trail his competitors but you can't just point to Oasis and say "that's it." It's probably due to a number of factors, including that operations seems to be one big mess and too many unhappy crew and front line staff.
If there is a management change Oasis might be reversed. For now I don't see Parker forgoing millions in sunk costs just because on FT people are complaining. FT is a speck of the EXPs and CKs. Show me concrete evidence that AA is experiencing a material runoff off elites, particularly at the higher levels and I'll eat my words.
#156
Join Date: Jul 2005
Programs: DL-Plat
Posts: 142
Team Parker gutted AAdvantage and their elite program, destroyed their onboard catering, densified their fleet and cut the size of the F cabin in the belief that business travellers would have no alternatives because of reduced competition caused by massive industry consolidation. That was a bad long term bet in my opinion. Prior to deregulation when CAB limited competition and price, airlines competed on service and product to drive brand loyalty. AA is going to need that brand loyalty when the economy cycles down and planes aren’t so full. UA and DL have that figured out, but Team Parker does not.
#157
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Stilllwater OK (SWO)
Programs: AAdvantage ExecPlat, World of Hyatt Globalist, plain "member" of Marriott, IHG, enterprise, etc.
Posts: 1,848
The missing dividers is one of my biggest gripes too, and that is speaking from someone who is on the Y side of that. I like the Y bulkhead for one reason -- there is little motion in my field of vision, making it much more relaxing to read, watch a movie, or doing whatever else. In Oasis planes, this is all gone...
#158
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: SAN
Programs: AA CK, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 839
The answer to that question is “yes”. I’ve been EXP for the last decade and DFW based. I status matched late last year to DL Platinum and haven’t looked back. My upgrade percentage as a DL Plat has been much better so far than it was in my last year as EXP. DL employees are actually nice to their passengers and they don’t waste time hawking credit cards. DL only has one terminal at DFW, and it’s been updated. That’s a lot better than the ghetto of Terminal C and the PITA of trekking between terminals to get to your car at 1:30 in the morning. The entire DL experience leaves me with the impression they want my business, whereas AA makes it clear they just don’t care anymore.
Team Parker gutted AAdvantage and their elite program, destroyed their onboard catering, densified their fleet and cut the size of the F cabin in the belief that business travellers would have no alternatives because of reduced competition caused by massive industry consolidation. That was a bad long term bet in my opinion. Prior to deregulation when CAB limited competition and price, airlines competed on service and product to drive brand loyalty. AA is going to need that brand loyalty when the economy cycles down and planes aren’t so full. UA and DL have that figured out, but Team Parker does not.
I’ve changed programs four times in the past 20 years - DL-CO-US-AA and wouldn’t hesitate to take a status challenge with another airline.
#159
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: AAdvantage PP
Posts: 13,913
A number of flyers on FT saying they've left AA (and at the top levels) isn't conclusive evidence that there is any kind of run off. If in fact that occurs Parker and team will be toast. Personally I like to see it happen but I'm not convinced there is a run for the gates. There is based upon the financial results performance well below AA's two primary peers. The reasons? Probably varied, including AA not being all that up to par from an operations standpoint.
#160
Join Date: May 2011
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP, LT Gold
Posts: 3,148
A number of flyers on FT saying they've left AA (and at the top levels) isn't conclusive evidence that there is any kind of run off. If in fact that occurs Parker and team will be toast. Personally I like to see it happen but I'm not convinced there is a run for the gates. There is based upon the financial results performance well below AA's two primary peers. The reasons? Probably varied, including AA not being all that up to par from an operations standpoint.
When the CEO constantly deflects analyst or industry leader's questioning their poor performance from a worsening customer experience, I think there's more than enough room for healthy speculation that densification is hurting AA's revenue.
It's always easier for Dougie to just say "Well... but... we're still catching DL".
#161
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wesley Chapel, FL
Programs: American Airlines
Posts: 30,013
Why? Back in the old days you switched with status matches (as I did too) to other airlines because they offered something above and beyond the current airline. Now, they are all on the same playing field IE they are all crap. There's no where to go to. You think DL and UA folks are getting upgrades and redeeming their SWU equivalent at booking? Only the top tiers mean anything now and I'm not talking about DL diamond, UA 1K or EXP I'm talking about global services, CK and whatever Delta's invite only FFP is.
#162
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,477
I agree 100%. And if one can believe “leading economists” next year will begin a downturn in the economy - probably coinciding with the Oasis retrofits arriving in full force.
I’ve changed programs four times in the past 20 years - DL-CO-US-AA and wouldn’t hesitate to take a status challenge with another airline.
And this is my argument about the whole Oasis project. cost a lot of money to convert the fleet, and too much increase in capacity by the time economy goes south.
#163
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: SAN
Programs: AA CK, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 839
Why? Back in the old days you switched with status matches (as I did too) to other airlines because they offered something above and beyond the current airline. Now, they are all on the same playing field IE they are all crap. There's no where to go to. You think DL and UA folks are getting upgrades and redeeming their SWU equivalent at booking? Only the top tiers mean anything now and I'm not talking about DL diamond, UA 1K or EXP I'm talking about global services, CK and whatever Delta's invite only FFP is.
#165
Join Date: May 2011
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP, LT Gold
Posts: 3,148
Pitch, Width
AA 738 MAX
F: 37, 21
Y: 30, 16.6-17.8 (non-MCE)
DL A220 (maybe this one isn't a totally fair comparison)
F: 36, 21
Y: 30-32, 18.6
DL 739
F: 37, 21
Y: 30-31, 17.2
(For a truly fair look, the DL 738's have 160 seats on them, vs the 172 on the AA 738s (MAX 8 included).
UA 739 MAX
F: 38, 20.5
Y: 31, 18
(UA's most dense 738s have 166 seats on board)
The clear distinction in these numbers is the fact that DL is putting IFE in every seat back, nor are they packing as many people into similar frames.
Tighter cabin seating and more stripped amenities (no IFE) clearly sends a sign to the customer that their comfort was not highly thought of when the airline considered the layout.