donotblink

Fanjet

If fares to Hawaii see a big price drop, IMO it will be because AS initiates it, not WN. And I think WN starting Hawaii service is a much bigger threat to them than American. Moreover, AA is selling its F cabin on their Hawaii flights at some pretty high fares. And WN won't be competing with them in that regard at all. But if AA decides to match such low Y fares, I'm pretty certain they will be Basic Economy fares.

RustyC

Southwest hasn't been the white knight people had hoped for in ATL (if it were, then Spirit, JetBlue and Frontier wouldn't be able to have as much presence here). OTOH, there's still usually quite a difference between fares where DL has to compete with WN and DL monopoly routes, so it does have some effect.

Hawaii has been really badly exploited by the legacies...I remember back in the aughts having to explain to my mom why the service she remembered from UA in the early 70s was no more and how mainland-Hawaii flights had become one of the WORST flying experiences in coach, as a worst-of-both-worlds hybrid where they treat it as a domestic flight for some things and an international for others (like upgrades). Something to endure rather than look forward to.

Was in Las Vegas recently in one of the favored areas for Hawaiians to stay (the California Hotel-Main Street Station axis downtown) and noticed they had charter flights to HNL...I dunno about the prices or the flying conditions in those, but the bar is set low for someone to come in and do that. LAS is the only place I ever see discernible crowds of Hawaiians outside of Hawaii.

Back in the olden days of 15 or so years ago there might be 2 or 3 hub-attack ATL-HNL specials in a year sub-$400 by other airlines sniping at DL. It was a good run for getting EQMs if they could help, and I'd always try to break it up with a western connection because there was SOME chance then of getting the free upgrade to LAX, SFO or SEA and then flying in the back the rest of the way to Hawaii. The nonstops from the eastern or midwest gateways (EWR, ATL, MSP, DFW, etc.) were always packed and non-upgradeable...really the pits for flying in the back.

I think it's also worth pointing out that if WN does enter that market, then its FF program suddenly becomes more valuable to a lot of people as long as there's a chance at a decently priced award. There are lots of people out there who don't have a passport or who hardly ever use it if they do, and if you're an airline that serves MCO, LAS, HNL and maybe CUN (for something really dangerous/exotic) plus wherever Grandma lives, well, that's the "world" to a lot of people.

And because Hawaii is still trip-of-a-lifetime stuff to many people, they're likely to spend at least a few more days vs. their regular trip, and that makes it harder to just do the carry-on if you're not experienced with the traveling-light, which in turn makes the WN bag policy more valuable. If WN prices with 2 bags at the same as legacies without bags, it'd give people good reason to favor WN. It also might get 'em looking into the FF programs and how flying the legacy on a $400 fare only earns 2K miles even if they fly at least 5K miles RT.

JonNYC

deleted, wrong thread

jayer

The bigger question is how much they affect overall demand. You would think they tap a new demographic rather than just reallocate returning visitors. The problem being Hawaii is rolling off record tourism years now. The capacity to absorb more is not really there.

diver858

At some point, WN loyalists will become frustrated with the continued delays in ETOPS certification, teases by WN management/marketing, make alternative plans for spring and summer vacations - either on different carriers to Hawaii, alternative WN destinations for award redemption.

aamilesslave

Southwest luvs it when people think they're automatically the lowest cost. That's why they like to drive people to book on their own site, so they don't see other options for comparison.
It's pretty genius.

jcain

My wife used to fly from LA to various Bay Area airports on short notice for work and regularly paid $400-500 RT on Southwest. They have a ton of intra-CA flights so are often much more convenient than AA/UA/DL.

skunker

Yeah, even though they use Amadeus GDS now, they refuse to show their fares outside of their own website.

skunker

The GSA city pair cost for SAN-SFO is $71 each way on United. SAN-OAK is $225 each way on Southwest. A lack of competition plays heavily into that, but that's still crazy for an hour flight.

dayone

Southwest test flight landing at OGG on Feb. 18.

NA-Flyer

I think the only way AA can compete with Souhwest on Hawaii routes is to send wide body aircrafts like 787-8, 787-9 and 772 instead of the narrow body ones, they are using now, with the latest hard products especially from LAX and PHX markets to HNL and OGG @:-)

The adapted new model should be: to reduce frequency and increase capacity on existing frequencies.

Nuhusky

IADCAflyer

By giving out credit card applications draped in plumeria adorned leis.

diver858

Yup - more hype, still no ticket sales.