joe_miami

Most of the time, lost bags and delayed bags are two different things. The idea that people should be gifted with $4,000 in clothes because their bag arrived a day or two later remains silly, especially in an environment in which people are generally compensated $0 for lost time, lost business, missed events, etc., even when the preceding can be documented.

VegasGambler

That's because they generally don't sue. This is what courts are for -- to recover damages. If the damages are legitimate, that's not frivolous.

On one occasion (3 week trip) I had over $8000 worth of clothing in a single suitcase bag (2x $2000 suits, 1x $1500 jacket, 2x $700 pairs of shoes, several shirts @ $100-$200 each, assorted other clothing). I don't think that this situation is THAT uncommon. Now, had my bag been delayed 1-2 days, I probably would have asked for minimal compensation, but, had it been lost or stolen, I certainly would have been going through the courts if they tried to limit their liability at $3500.

Claims that "the law" limits their liability are incorrect. The DOT prevents them from limiting their liability to less than a certain amount. The law says that the airlines have to follow DOT regulations. There is no DOT regulation (and certainly no law) that limits their liability to $3500. They may, in their CoC, attempt to limit their liability to $3500. Whether that is enforceable is a question for the courts. It's certainly not frivolous to bring that question before the court.

rbAA

I'm not sure about NYC Small Claims, but in California I did a few appearances for my corporate clients (none the size of AA of course,) when they asked me. Corporations generally need to be represented by a responsible officer or attorney in any court matter. Also, when I did my Judge Pro Tem turns in the local Superior Court to hear Small Claims appeals, occasionally there would be attorneys representing corporate defendants. The time involved in a Small Court matter is minimal, so the legal costs are not like the usual Federal or state matter.

That said, I did have to sue TWA once in San Francisco Small Claims court. TW sent a local manager from the SFO operations. Nice guy and we worked out a settlement (40,000 miles as that is what I paid for the award: free FC plus FC UPG from any fare, for a honeymoon trip to Greece where the plane went out with 6 open FC seats we were "waitlisted" for.) They never contacted me before the hearing, but he came prepared to refund the miles. I'm sure if I had insisted upon the value of the difference between J and FC (the monetary value of my claim,) he probably couldn't have done that. No repurcussions at all.

Also, BA doesn't seem to mind that I beat them in a CEDR arbitration over EC compensation that everyone on the BA board said I was going to lose. Oh, yee of little faith.

kaydee7

I agree. If they were going to a wedding, arriving with not much time before, and had to go to a store at the last minute say Saks even. And pick the one dress they may have liked plus shoes plus regular attire. Sure she could have gotten something else, but the stress of not having what u want or fits well. I try and always put that sort of thing in my carryon, but it doesn't always work that way.

Often1

Wrong.

DOT does set the maximum liability for loss or damage ($3,500) for domestic tickets (and the Montreal Convention sets those limits for international (approximately $1,650 per passenger). This is the plain English link to the DOT consumer Guidance. It contains links to the specific 14 CFR rules.

It is worth reading before giving advice to others so that they are not unpleasantly surprised. In particular, if you are going to pack $7,000 in clothing into a checked bag, you would be well-advised to declare the excess value at check-in (and pay the additional fee) or to maintain proper travel insurance with coverage limits sufficient to meet your needs.

https://www.transportation.gov/lost-...%20liabilities

sbrower

Either very old information or something unusual. Attorneys cannot appear for clients in California Small Claims court.

jordyn

It would probably be helpful to read the CFR if you are going to rely on them as an authority. It says exactly what VegasGambler asserts:

So, the CFR does not set a limitation on liability, it sets a minimum level of liability that airlines have to meet. If an airline wanted to voluntarily cover up to $20,000 per passenger, there would be nothing to prevent them from doing so.

Having said that, I'm sure every airline sets their limitation of liability to exactly $3,500 so its a bit of a semantic question rather than a substantive one.

Bear96

Have fun with that litigation. (In fact, I would be surprised if this issue has not already been litigated.) Consistent with DoT regulations, the airline has legally set its limit at $3,500. What would the argument be that that is not enforceable and they have to pay potentially some unlimited amount?

Want a higher limit? Declare and pay more at check-in (or whenever that would be done), or otherwise insure on your own. And the ability to do just that would surely be a good defense for an airline fighting an allegation that the $3,500 limit is not enforceable. The consumer had a choice to purchase a higher limit but decided not to do so, thus accepting the risk.

wetrat0

I disagree that this is true "most of the time" because the traveler doesn't always know whether the bag is lost or delayed. Moreover, if I need the clothing item on day 1, but the bag is not arriving till day 3, lost vs. delayed is just a matter of semantics.

This summer (southern hemisphere winter), my large duffel bag with most of my cold weather clothing was delayed on a KLM flight into JNB, but we were on an open jaw with onward travel the next morning on another carrier. KLM offered me 100 Euros to buy "temporary" replacements and assured the bag would arrive in JNB the next day. But by that time, we would already be in Zimbabwe. At the time it was entirely unclear whether I would be able to get my bag before we headed onward, and/or what it would cost to get it delivered.

I spent substantially more than 100 Euros because I knew there was a chance that I wouldn't see the bag before the end of my trip (if ever, given that it might end up somewhere in Zimbabwe after I had left the country) and I wasn't going to go to a remote location unprepared for the weather.

On the surface you could say "well, your bag was only one day late to JNB, which was your ticketed destination, so you should have been reasonable and only purchased a small amount of stuff". But context and situation are important.

In the end, I was reunited with the bag in Zimbabwe on day 3, with 30 minutes to spare before my ground transfer to Botswana, thanks only to the heroic efforts of a hotel manager who personally drove me to the airport at about 3x the speed limit, after we were erroneously told the bag would be delivered to the hotel, only to find out that the airport wouldn't release the bag without seeing my passport, even though I had signed a waiver. The story ended fine because DL immediately cut a check for the full amount I spent (and I didn't even need to go to my credit card coverage as a backup).

Often1

It is indeed semantics. AA, in this case, chooses to set its liability limit at "up to $3,500" per its COC.

The suggestion that the $3,500 limit is not enforceable because DOT does not specify a limit is incorrect.

What I had not realized until I reread the AA provision is that AA sets an outside limit of $5,000 even with purchased excess baggage. Thus, the $7,000+ loss situation he uses is even beyond what one could purchase (from AA).

lebelgo

The OP has flown over 2 million miles with AA. Wouldn't writing to someone be helpful? One would think they'd try to be nice to such a loyal customer. We don't know about this particular case, but it would seem to pretty sad if they couldn't come to a reasonable agreement with one of their most loyal and long-term customers.

VegasGambler

Please read the DOT regulations more carefully. DOT does not set liability, the airlines do. DOT requires that they not set it below $3500. If an airline wishes to set their liability limit to $10,000, they may do so.

Emphasis mine. You are misunderstanding this regulation.

VegasGambler

It is true that the limit is set by the airline, not by DOT. The only regulation is that they may not set it below $3500. There is no law that says that the limit that the airline sets is enforceable. They can write whatever they want in their CoC. Whether that forms a contract in the legal sense is up to the courts to decide. Can there be a contract (which requires a meeting of the minds) if one of the parties is unaware of the contract? Again, that's a question for the courts. Which is why there are lawsuits, and passengers do win sometimes, regardless of the CoC.

The idea that the airline can set whatever rules they want in their CoC, and they will automatically be upheld by the court, is simply not correct.