Jan 3, 2018, 5:05 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
AA has increased award availability at the SAAver / MileSAAver level, apparently at the cost of reducing the availability of nonstop and direct routing and increasing availability requiring connections using married segment logic.
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Link to Boarding Area: Sunday Reader Question: What are married segments?
Link to Worldspan page with extensive information on MSL and coding.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
Married Segment Logic and Effects on Awards
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Married segment logic controls routings based on origin and destination, rather than segment-by-segment availability. Boarding Area
From Amadeus: Married Segment Control Link
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
- Ensures more effective forecasting by preventing O&D misuse and matching revenue forecasts with final revenues.
- Improves consistency of sales processes by controlling travel agent selling behaviour.
- Fully customisable and flexible solution that meets airline unique system requirements.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
More award availability restricted by married segments / connections
Jan 27, 2019, 11:59 am
#346
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
I am running into the following problem when trying to book Economy Saver awards
TUS-ORD available
ORD- ATW available
TUS-ORD-ATW only available as Economy Anytime or Business Saver
I also tried multi-city TUS-ORD and ORD-ATW and can book that as Economy Saver at 20k
what the heck? that makes no sense at all. I want my whole trip at the 12.5k redemption!
TUS-ORD available
ORD- ATW available
TUS-ORD-ATW only available as Economy Anytime or Business Saver
I also tried multi-city TUS-ORD and ORD-ATW and can book that as Economy Saver at 20k
what the heck? that makes no sense at all. I want my whole trip at the 12.5k redemption!
Serious question: is there another frequent flier program that intentionally reduces route availability below constructed individual segments’ availability on valid route and connections ? Ignoring IT limitations and alliance member blackouts.
Jan 27, 2019, 5:40 pm
#347
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,951
Doesn’t Delta have fully dynamic pricing which (just like cash fares) incorporates married segment logic in pricing connections? I think on Delta the price in miles is now just whatever Delta tells you it is; there’s no award chart at all, so there’s no longer even a concept of availability on certain segments.
Jan 27, 2019, 6:33 pm
#348
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,234
Doesn’t Delta have fully dynamic pricing which (just like cash fares) incorporates married segment logic in pricing connections? I think on Delta the price in miles is now just whatever Delta tells you it is; there’s no award chart at all, so there’s no longer even a concept of availability on certain segments.
International business class awards thus can give you sticker shock— I think they top out at 500k, and are often 300k+, but can be much more reasonable when they have award sales, or when you can find availability on partner airlines (which usually means Aeroflot and China Eastern...).
Jan 27, 2019, 7:53 pm
#349
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 191
Can those who understand more tell me how the married segments would enhance AA's profitability?
From the earning release of the latest quarter
Passenger revenue per available seat miles was 14.59 cents
Cost per available seat mile was 15.21 cents
https://americanairlines.gcs-web.com...nd-full-year-3
Seems the FFP is the only business unit that continues to float the airline. With the super customer unfriendly or downright hostile married segment carried out to the extreme, just how it could incentivize customers continue to fly AA if they can help it not to fly AA? Even at the fortress hub like DFW people may still have other options.
I dont believe the decision making honchos at AA would be stupid enough to believe that the married segment would make customers book their awards by 2 separate ones? The most common outcome at least for me anyway, I may pay COMPETITORS a positioning flight if AA keeps preventing me to add an otherwise available domestic connection to the partner awards. AA still lose out by 1) it would not make me to spend more miles (therefore reduces its liability by making the full trip more expensive to redeem), 2) drives me to fly revenue ticket on competitor.
So what does AA have to gain by employing this devaluation in disguise?
From the earning release of the latest quarter
Passenger revenue per available seat miles was 14.59 cents
Cost per available seat mile was 15.21 cents
https://americanairlines.gcs-web.com...nd-full-year-3
Seems the FFP is the only business unit that continues to float the airline. With the super customer unfriendly or downright hostile married segment carried out to the extreme, just how it could incentivize customers continue to fly AA if they can help it not to fly AA? Even at the fortress hub like DFW people may still have other options.
I dont believe the decision making honchos at AA would be stupid enough to believe that the married segment would make customers book their awards by 2 separate ones? The most common outcome at least for me anyway, I may pay COMPETITORS a positioning flight if AA keeps preventing me to add an otherwise available domestic connection to the partner awards. AA still lose out by 1) it would not make me to spend more miles (therefore reduces its liability by making the full trip more expensive to redeem), 2) drives me to fly revenue ticket on competitor.
So what does AA have to gain by employing this devaluation in disguise?
Jan 28, 2019, 8:56 am
#350
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
More or less. Most award itineraries tend to price out in the ballpark of 1.3 cents per SkyMile. So a $500 ticket would cost roughly 38,000 miles. Which coincidentally is about halfway between a sAAver and AAnytime award on domestic. I think most of the time DL costs more miles than AA, but you don’t have to deal with this availability crap like on AA. On the other hand, there are no free changes (except high tier elites - I forget if it includes 75K Platinums, or is just 125k Diamonds — I think both), and they have that pesky no-changes-within-72-hours rule.
International business class awards thus can give you sticker shock— I think they top out at 500k, and are often 300k+, but can be much more reasonable when they have award sales, or when you can find availability on partner airlines (which usually means Aeroflot and China Eastern...).
International business class awards thus can give you sticker shock— I think they top out at 500k, and are often 300k+, but can be much more reasonable when they have award sales, or when you can find availability on partner airlines (which usually means Aeroflot and China Eastern...).
A friend based in PDX was able to score a 95K R/T business class award to EU in May on a flash sale last year.
While the regular search often comes up some laughable quotes, in reality DL is far better than AA and has been like that for several years already.
What AA still has some value to us is the OneWorld partners, namely CX/JL and QR/EY. Though situations on that front are not looking good these days.
Jan 28, 2019, 7:07 pm
#351
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
Doesn’t Delta have fully dynamic pricing which (just like cash fares) incorporates married segment logic in pricing connections? I think on Delta the price in miles is now just whatever Delta tells you it is; there’s no award chart at all, so there’s no longer even a concept of availability on certain segments.
One I do have experience with is LAN. They have variable pricing which closely tracks with fare class bucket inventory. I spent some time in the examining prior to booking LIM-SCL-PUQ. I found they also have married segments, where the combined inventory/pricing is always as good or better than the individual segments would infer. They also have sales where all the rates decrease. Partner airlines is a separate 'call in' operation with different pricing that I don't have experience with.
Back to the point, these carriers have varied pricing and availability evaluation. AA appears to have the valuation aspect, but not the availability/pricing, by that I mean they try to figure out how much it does/should cost, but don't provide those shades of grey on redemption pricing (its an either-or, saaver is available or not at double the price). A half pregnant type approach being a 'zone' type' redemption but evaluating inventory based on origin-destination when it exists on a segment basis.
But that wasn't really my quesiton, so I'll rephrase: Are there any tradition zone based award chart carriers that reduce availability on their own metal for married segments / constructed segment available itineries that are within routing and connection rules?
The reports of lower cost availability for 'economy web specials' but not for saaver on the same itinerary are also a headscratcher.
Feb 9, 2019, 10:01 am
#352
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: BOS, BWI, DCA, IAD
Programs: American, Delta, JetBlue, United
Posts: 2,049
Good plan. I would book the IB option now, then just keep an eye on availability over the next 10 months. If something better opens up, like the all AA MUC-CLT-DCA routing, you can call AA and switch for no fee (and get a refund of the IB surcharges). Booking this far out, I'd say it's highly likely that something better will pop up, especially as you're only looking for a single economy seat and have a little bit of flexibility in travel days.
Last edited by JPG3392; Feb 9, 2019 at 6:58 pm Reason: After checking AA's schedules, I revised some details on my previous post.
Mar 7, 2019, 8:23 pm
#353
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX
Programs: AA PLT / 2MM
Posts: 2,113
This hits the absurdity nail on the head:
1) Segments are available individually with valid connection, but not origin to destination. This is the opposite of married segment availability increase. If you called in to book it or modify one of your holds, you would be read the riot act. We probably need a separate thread to discuss this.
2) Inconsequential time later, everything is available. What was emphatically impossible previously, now is no problem.
All of this for a 2MM customer. They can't get that squared away on a domestic flight for him(her)? Talk about a way to piss off your customers for no real business gain. How many people actually buy aanytime awards? Let alone the peak pricing ones?
The high volatility of award inventory in conjunction with the hard line and origin to destination availability calculation process is laughable. Valuation isn't that dithering at 2x the price. Wrong tool for the job. Either keep it how it was with segment constructions or go to dynamic pricing, the half-pregnant version is asinine.
AA is free to do whatever they want, but they should at least publish the rules/process.
1) Point to point construction applicability - what about partners? Customers should be able to confirm in advance their itinerary is available prior to calling to book, no clue as how to do that on mixed OW itineraries.
2) Change of segment(s) on held and ticketed itineraries - what availability is required? What about mixed carrier tickets?
3) To Complete Itinerary and To Complete Party - still exist?
4) EPs expanded availability? Even UA IT figured out how to display this on their website and in GDS. It may be worthless in practice like SDC, but at least I can see it exists without having to waste my time and phone agents time calling.
1) Segments are available individually with valid connection, but not origin to destination. This is the opposite of married segment availability increase. If you called in to book it or modify one of your holds, you would be read the riot act. We probably need a separate thread to discuss this.
2) Inconsequential time later, everything is available. What was emphatically impossible previously, now is no problem.
All of this for a 2MM customer. They can't get that squared away on a domestic flight for him(her)? Talk about a way to piss off your customers for no real business gain. How many people actually buy aanytime awards? Let alone the peak pricing ones?
The high volatility of award inventory in conjunction with the hard line and origin to destination availability calculation process is laughable. Valuation isn't that dithering at 2x the price. Wrong tool for the job. Either keep it how it was with segment constructions or go to dynamic pricing, the half-pregnant version is asinine.
AA is free to do whatever they want, but they should at least publish the rules/process.
1) Point to point construction applicability - what about partners? Customers should be able to confirm in advance their itinerary is available prior to calling to book, no clue as how to do that on mixed OW itineraries.
2) Change of segment(s) on held and ticketed itineraries - what availability is required? What about mixed carrier tickets?
3) To Complete Itinerary and To Complete Party - still exist?
4) EPs expanded availability? Even UA IT figured out how to display this on their website and in GDS. It may be worthless in practice like SDC, but at least I can see it exists without having to waste my time and phone agents time calling.
Mar 7, 2019, 11:13 pm
#354
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX
Programs: AA PLT / 2MM
Posts: 2,113
Is AA's official policy now that you can't ever "piece together" segments on an award? That is, you cannot tell the agent there's space from A-B, B-C and C-D, please book me on A-B-C-D? If the exact combination of segments doesn't show up when searching AA.com for A-D, they won't do it?
Mar 7, 2019, 11:33 pm
#355
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,600
Is AA's official policy now that you can't ever "piece together" segments on an award? That is, you cannot tell the agent there's space from A-B, B-C and C-D, please book me on A-B-C-D? If the exact combination of segments doesn't show up when searching AA.com for A-D, they won't do it?
Mar 7, 2019, 11:56 pm
#356
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX
Programs: AA PLT / 2MM
Posts: 2,113
AA.com doesn't necessarily show every possible combination of 3-segment routings between two points, especially with long / overnight layovers. If you find availability on A-B, B-C, and C-D, how are you even supposed to know if married segment logic is applying or not?
And separately, of course, nobody knows how any of this new married segment garbage apply to changing an issued ticket, right?
Mar 8, 2019, 12:51 am
#357
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,600
Thanks, but more specifically, how does know if the married segment logic is allowing A to D via B and C? Whatever comes up on AA.com, and if it doesn't appear on AA.com you're out of luck?
AA.com doesn't necessarily show every possible combination of 3-segment routings between two points, especially with long / overnight layovers. If you find availability on A-B, B-C, and C-D, how are you even supposed to know if married segment logic is applying or not?
And separately, of course, nobody knows how any of this new married segment garbage apply to changing an issued ticket, right?
AA.com doesn't necessarily show every possible combination of 3-segment routings between two points, especially with long / overnight layovers. If you find availability on A-B, B-C, and C-D, how are you even supposed to know if married segment logic is applying or not?
And separately, of course, nobody knows how any of this new married segment garbage apply to changing an issued ticket, right?
Mar 8, 2019, 1:42 pm
#358
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX
Programs: AA PLT / 2MM
Posts: 2,113
AAgents' training on this issue is laughably abysmal. I called to try to add on B-C to a reservation I was holding from A-B, and the agent tried to do it but the computer wasn't letting her. Obviously I played dumb and had her check with a supervisor to see if they would do it. She came back on and started talking to me about "domestic Mileage SAAver" and "international Mileage SAAver awards" and saying there's "domestic T inventory" and "international T inventory" and I just chuckled to myself... They have some real bozos working!
Mar 8, 2019, 6:08 pm
#359
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 6
So I have been hit by the married segment bug and am kicking myself for not researching FlyerTalk first.
My situation is MUC-DFW-DTW - the DFW-DTW on that U business saver was the last flight getting into DTW after midnight with a very long layover at DFW. I figured I could simply call in and request an earlier flight to DTW from DFW because I saw on AA.com that U space was available on all flights. Lo and Behold, I find that while U space is available, it isn't available from MUC... whatever.
So my question..., while this may be a difficult question to answer, how likely are they to open up space? If space is open now for someone who wants to go simply from DFW to DTW as saaver level... but not from someone connecting from MUC, then why would there ever be space open in the future is my thought??
Bottom line, am i wasting my time logging into AA.com and attempting to rebook this flight to see if this married segment earlier connection is available. Thanks!
My situation is MUC-DFW-DTW - the DFW-DTW on that U business saver was the last flight getting into DTW after midnight with a very long layover at DFW. I figured I could simply call in and request an earlier flight to DTW from DFW because I saw on AA.com that U space was available on all flights. Lo and Behold, I find that while U space is available, it isn't available from MUC... whatever.
So my question..., while this may be a difficult question to answer, how likely are they to open up space? If space is open now for someone who wants to go simply from DFW to DTW as saaver level... but not from someone connecting from MUC, then why would there ever be space open in the future is my thought??
Bottom line, am i wasting my time logging into AA.com and attempting to rebook this flight to see if this married segment earlier connection is available. Thanks!
Mar 8, 2019, 6:16 pm
#360
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX
Programs: AA PLT / 2MM
Posts: 2,113
Very good question, but the answer beats the heck out of me. Very scammy of AA to introduce this stealth change and give no explanation.