Jan 3, 2018, 5:05 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
AA has increased award availability at the SAAver / MileSAAver level, apparently at the cost of reducing the availability of nonstop and direct routing and increasing availability requiring connections using married segment logic.
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Link to Boarding Area: Sunday Reader Question: What are married segments?
Link to Worldspan page with extensive information on MSL and coding.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
Married Segment Logic and Effects on Awards
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Married segment logic controls routings based on origin and destination, rather than segment-by-segment availability. Boarding Area
From Amadeus: Married Segment Control Link
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
- Ensures more effective forecasting by preventing O&D misuse and matching revenue forecasts with final revenues.
- Improves consistency of sales processes by controlling travel agent selling behaviour.
- Fully customisable and flexible solution that meets airline unique system requirements.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
More award availability restricted by married segments / connections
Jun 13, 2019, 7:18 pm
#421
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat; Bonvoy Titanium Lifetime Elite;Hyatt Globalist; HHonors Diamond; United Silver
Posts: 8,318
Ok, it’s flight specific married segments. So when there is only a 20 hour layover option, it’s intentional.
Jun 13, 2019, 8:24 pm
#422
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: AS 100K, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 298
Jun 13, 2019, 9:24 pm
#423
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manhattan Beach, California
Programs: BMI Diamond Club Gold forever
Posts: 6,367
Availability is based on origin-destination and flights taken. A-B might be available in conjuntion with one B-C flight but not with another - perfectly normal
Availability on the 1st flight could be of benefit to someone already holding a ticket on the 2nd flight and wanting to change to the 1st flight
Availability on the 1st flight could be of benefit to someone already holding a ticket on the 2nd flight and wanting to change to the 1st flight
I’m not talking one or two tickets, I’m speaking from experience of 5-7 biz awards at a time a few times a year. Again, the silver lining for west coasters wanting to go to LHR this summer appears to be exSFO and using AS to get to SFO. But if you think this is normal then i have a few million miles of award redemptions over the past few years that say otherwise. It is the new normal apparently.
Jun 14, 2019, 1:00 am
#424
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,624
Married segment availability has been used by airlines for years and is how it has worked for years. The availability on A-B can vary based on the specific flights ; it is only AA's use of it for awards which is recent
Jun 14, 2019, 7:02 am
#425
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
That's a myopic oversimplification of the situation and what's evolved here.
Jun 14, 2019, 8:05 am
#426
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manhattan Beach, California
Programs: BMI Diamond Club Gold forever
Posts: 6,367
BTW, some good ex-SFO milesaaver availability for July is STILL there! 5 F saavers SFO-JFK-LHR on the last Saturday of July and 5 or more in the U bucket on several days. I prefer DFW or LAX for the long overnight flight, but I’ll take what i can get...
Jun 14, 2019, 9:02 am
#427
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 286
The late July-mid August J saver availability to Europe has been wide open in ways I have never seen before. Just put 5 family members on a DTW-DFW-LHR routing in J, and there are still 5 open J savers on those flights, as well as a DTW-LGA, JFK-LHR routing. The DFW-LHR flight is really nice (assuming no mechanical delays!) because it leaves at 10:30 Eastern and takes just over 9 hours, which gives enough time for pretty much a full nights sleep.
Jun 14, 2019, 11:59 am
#428
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manhattan Beach, California
Programs: BMI Diamond Club Gold forever
Posts: 6,367
The late July-mid August J saver availability to Europe has been wide open in ways I have never seen before. Just put 5 family members on a DTW-DFW-LHR routing in J, and there are still 5 open J savers on those flights, as well as a DTW-LGA, JFK-LHR routing. The DFW-LHR flight is really nice (assuming no mechanical delays!) because it leaves at 10:30 Eastern and takes just over 9 hours, which gives enough time for pretty much a full nights sleep.
Jun 18, 2019, 9:03 am
#429
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Titanium
Posts: 4,433
Good to hear some other cities are seeing this too. I love the DFW and LHR flights for that reason. Unfortunately it looks like AA is making east coasters go west to get DFW and us westcoasters have to connect in NYC. Hilarious actually, but that seems to be the gist of the married segments logic this summer.
Jun 18, 2019, 10:49 am
#430
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 509
Similarly, I have been struggling with non stops out of PHL, but I can go up to LGA, then connect in PHL on a nonstop, albeit with a 12hr+ connect. The whole thing is just ludicrous. It makes it look like they are literally using the married segment logic and absurd connections/times to force people into considering paying the higher mileage rate. I know my frustration and emotions play into it, but the whole scene is feeling more and more unscrupulous to me.
And I can get no non stops from JFK to LON at saver levels. I can take the train to PHL to fly back to JFK and then I get the non stop for 57.5. This is completely ridiculous. Why would AA want me to take a seat on a flight from PHL-JFK for free when they could probably sell it and why are they making that the only way I can get a saver award non stop from JFK to LON.
And I can get no non stops from JFK to LON at saver levels. I can take the train to PHL to fly back to JFK and then I get the non stop for 57.5. This is completely ridiculous. Why would AA want me to take a seat on a flight from PHL-JFK for free when they could probably sell it and why are they making that the only way I can get a saver award non stop from JFK to LON.
Jun 21, 2019, 8:27 am
#431
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manhattan Beach, California
Programs: BMI Diamond Club Gold forever
Posts: 6,367
I feel bad for hub based folks, this married segment stuff is fine for us in non hub based folks who have to connect anyway but look at this crappy outcomes...
July 27: DFW-DUB nonstop shows U5 if paired with SEA-LAX-DFW but U0 if you search DFW-LHR alone. On 7/27 if you are in DFW you can go to Dublin via CLT (shows U6 for that routing).
Many other examples like this whether ORD or DFW, you wont get milesaaver biz availability that thise of us connecting to your nonstops can get.
Punitive. No nonstops for you hub folks!
July 27: DFW-DUB nonstop shows U5 if paired with SEA-LAX-DFW but U0 if you search DFW-LHR alone. On 7/27 if you are in DFW you can go to Dublin via CLT (shows U6 for that routing).
Many other examples like this whether ORD or DFW, you wont get milesaaver biz availability that thise of us connecting to your nonstops can get.
Punitive. No nonstops for you hub folks!
Jun 21, 2019, 9:23 am
#432
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AA PLT, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,405
This crap screws connecting pax too at times. Was recently looking for saver awards for my parents. AAA-ORD was available individually, ORD-BBB was also available individually (at the saver level), but the through-ticket was only available at the aanytime rate which was over twice the rate of saver. What an absolute load of crap. It's crazy to me that someone at AA is literally thinking of every little thing they can do to screw over their loyal customers. Just insane.
Jun 24, 2019, 6:36 am
#433
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: EWR
Programs: Alaska, Marriott
Posts: 161
Not sure if it's asked before, but are these married segment awards available for partners?
I can see a lot of availability on AA.com with married segments, but couldn't reproduce the exact itinerary with AS search.
Not sure if it's an AS technical issue, or AA not releasing such availability to partners.
I can see a lot of availability on AA.com with married segments, but couldn't reproduce the exact itinerary with AS search.
Not sure if it's an AS technical issue, or AA not releasing such availability to partners.
Jun 24, 2019, 8:36 am
#434
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,951
Not sure if it's asked before, but are these married segment awards available for partners?
I can see a lot of availability on AA.com with married segments, but couldn't reproduce the exact itinerary with AS search.
Not sure if it's an AS technical issue, or AA not releasing such availability to partners.
I can see a lot of availability on AA.com with married segments, but couldn't reproduce the exact itinerary with AS search.
Not sure if it's an AS technical issue, or AA not releasing such availability to partners.
Jun 24, 2019, 10:06 am
#435
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: EWR
Programs: Alaska, Marriott
Posts: 161
In the case of AS specifically, I suspect but don’t know that their search engine searches by segment (which used to be equivalent). Of course, they have different pricing and routing rules (eg stopovers allowed) etc but need AA availability. And frustratingly you can’t call AS and try to get a knowledgeable agent to search in an appropriate way because AS agents now just have the same web interface we do.
It's not shown up among BA search either which doesn't seem to allow multi-segment search on their website.