Jan 3, 2018, 5:05 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
AA has increased award availability at the SAAver / MileSAAver level, apparently at the cost of reducing the availability of nonstop and direct routing and increasing availability requiring connections using married segment logic.
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Link to Boarding Area: Sunday Reader Question: What are married segments?
Link to Worldspan page with extensive information on MSL and coding.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
Married Segment Logic and Effects on Awards
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Married segment logic controls routings based on origin and destination, rather than segment-by-segment availability. Boarding Area
From Amadeus: Married Segment Control Link
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
- Ensures more effective forecasting by preventing O&D misuse and matching revenue forecasts with final revenues.
- Improves consistency of sales processes by controlling travel agent selling behaviour.
- Fully customisable and flexible solution that meets airline unique system requirements.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
More award availability restricted by married segments / connections
Sep 11, 2019, 5:44 pm
#481
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AA PLT, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,405
If I was a DFW resident I would be PEEVED. Look at DFW-HKG next week. Z0U0 if originating in DFW. But magically change your origin to IAH or OKC and voila, U7 on multiple dates, even a handful of Z. But no C inventory that I've seen, at least DFWers could upgrade if C was available, but nope. Even as an OKCer who could benefit from these shenanigans, I find this crap to be irritating to no end.
Sep 11, 2019, 5:48 pm
#482
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,905
I was in the same situation going to Italy with an even longer layover. I ticketed and eventually there was a small schedule change. AA automatically put me on the best connection even though the schedule change would have been doable. If your flight is far out I’d chance it but prepare for the worst.
Sep 11, 2019, 6:09 pm
#483
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MSP/BUF/BNA/LFT
Programs: AA Plat, Priority Club Gold, Choice Privileges Gold
Posts: 1,225
I'm in limbo right now wondering what to do with this married sAAver award ticket I'm looking at booking. I want to book MUC-PHL-ATL, but the only itenerary that's bookable is with an 8 hour layover in PHL. What's crazy is that I can see the PHL to ATL flight that gives me only a 3 hour layover and it's a sAAver award. Obviously AA doesn't want me to have that one because they hate happiness.
I called in and tried to book it. They wouldn't let me. Is it worth it to book, then call in and try to change the second flight? For the love of God. It's sitting right there in sAAver space. Why AA? Why must you do this?
I called in and tried to book it. They wouldn't let me. Is it worth it to book, then call in and try to change the second flight? For the love of God. It's sitting right there in sAAver space. Why AA? Why must you do this?
Sep 23, 2019, 9:41 pm
#485
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: AA MM PP, MR LT Plat, Globalist
Posts: 1,004
Quick clarification needed
Perhaps we should add this to the FAQ? -
Do these married segment restrictions apply only to AA flights or also partner flights? For example: LAX-HKG-SIN is available but LAX-HKG is not.
Married segment restrictions apply only to AA metal.
If this marrying concept applies to partner flights, then I suppose we can no longer use BA.com for award searches and must use AA.com only?
Answer: N/A
Do these married segment restrictions apply only to AA flights or also partner flights? For example: LAX-HKG-SIN is available but LAX-HKG is not.
Married segment restrictions apply only to AA metal.
If this marrying concept applies to partner flights, then I suppose we can no longer use BA.com for award searches and must use AA.com only?
Answer: N/A
Sep 23, 2019, 10:16 pm
#486
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,624
Perhaps we should add this to the FAQ? -
Do these married segment restrictions apply only to AA flights or also partner flights? For example: LAX-HKG-SIN is available but LAX-HKG is not.
Married segment restrictions apply only to AA metal.
If this marrying concept applies to partner flights, then I suppose we can no longer use BA.com for award searches and must use AA.com only?
Answer: N/A
Do these married segment restrictions apply only to AA flights or also partner flights? For example: LAX-HKG-SIN is available but LAX-HKG is not.
Married segment restrictions apply only to AA metal.
If this marrying concept applies to partner flights, then I suppose we can no longer use BA.com for award searches and must use AA.com only?
Answer: N/A
That has no impact on using BA for award searches as long as it can find connections
It is the airlines whose availability is being searched for, that defines the availability, not AA
Sep 24, 2019, 7:14 pm
#487
Join Date: May 1998
Location: australia
Posts: 5,762
Perhaps we should add this to the FAQ? -
Do these married segment restrictions apply only to AA flights or also partner flights? For example: LAX-HKG-SIN is available but LAX-HKG is not.
Married segment restrictions apply only to AA metal.
If this marrying concept applies to partner flights, then I suppose we can no longer use BA.com for award searches and must use AA.com only?
Answer: N/A
Do these married segment restrictions apply only to AA flights or also partner flights? For example: LAX-HKG-SIN is available but LAX-HKG is not.
Married segment restrictions apply only to AA metal.
If this marrying concept applies to partner flights, then I suppose we can no longer use BA.com for award searches and must use AA.com only?
Answer: N/A
SYD-(QF)-BNE-(CX)-HKG-(CX)-TLV all in Business
When searching BNE-TLV on the same dates the BNE-(CX)-HKG-(CX)-TLV flights I could book originating from SYD did not appear but I was able to put on hold:
BNE-(QF)-AKL-(CX)-HKG-(CX)-TLV
Bizarre, but I presume (perhaps wrongly) that the CX 359 from Auckland will at least be a better experience than the 333 from Brisbane and who wouldn't jump at the opportunity for an overnighter at the Holiday Inn Auckland Airport
Sep 26, 2019, 6:51 am
#488
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: DFW, DAL
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat, SWA A-list +
Posts: 1,007
i haven't book an international flight on american in 2 years and just ran into this.
DFW-PHL-DBV flights booked with an award (call it option 1), however, when i saw a more convenient dfw-phl (option 2) I was told that i booked a married segment and the option 2 was not available. Strange, because when i booked my flight originally both dfw-phl and phl-dbv (option 1) were available as separate segments.
it would have saved me only 1:25hrs at phl, so not the end of the world.
DFW-PHL-DBV flights booked with an award (call it option 1), however, when i saw a more convenient dfw-phl (option 2) I was told that i booked a married segment and the option 2 was not available. Strange, because when i booked my flight originally both dfw-phl and phl-dbv (option 1) were available as separate segments.
it would have saved me only 1:25hrs at phl, so not the end of the world.
Sep 26, 2019, 11:30 am
#489
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Here and there
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,551
i haven't book an international flight on american in 2 years and just ran into this.
DFW-PHL-DBV flights booked with an award (call it option 1), however, when i saw a more convenient dfw-phl (option 2) I was told that i booked a married segment and the option 2 was not available. Strange, because when i booked my flight originally both dfw-phl and phl-dbv (option 1) were available as separate segments.
it would have saved me only 1:25hrs at phl, so not the end of the world.
DFW-PHL-DBV flights booked with an award (call it option 1), however, when i saw a more convenient dfw-phl (option 2) I was told that i booked a married segment and the option 2 was not available. Strange, because when i booked my flight originally both dfw-phl and phl-dbv (option 1) were available as separate segments.
it would have saved me only 1:25hrs at phl, so not the end of the world.
Sep 27, 2019, 6:28 am
#491
Join Date: Jun 2010
Programs: Whatever's Cheapest, Accruing Miles, Redeeming for Premium Cabins, Not Chasing Status Unnecessarily
Posts: 2,264
mixed cabin awards
Hi,
Let's say I book a business class sAAver award with mixed cabins.
I.e. First flight is in business, next flight is economy, next flight is business.
Before the day of travel, what are the criteria for asking to be put in business on the 2nd flight?
Does sAAver space have to be available from O/D of the entire one way or if I find sAAver space by searching that flight, they could put me in there? I read that now the agents have to deal with HARD married segment logic...
And on the day of travel, let's say I fly the first segment in business, and I'm at my layover:
Same question as above. Is it easier now that one segment will have been flown?
Next question is (if unable to do the above)... can I be put on the upgrade list? If so, how? Also, would that go by whether the segment shows business sAAver availability?
THanks
Let's say I book a business class sAAver award with mixed cabins.
I.e. First flight is in business, next flight is economy, next flight is business.
Before the day of travel, what are the criteria for asking to be put in business on the 2nd flight?
Does sAAver space have to be available from O/D of the entire one way or if I find sAAver space by searching that flight, they could put me in there? I read that now the agents have to deal with HARD married segment logic...
And on the day of travel, let's say I fly the first segment in business, and I'm at my layover:
Same question as above. Is it easier now that one segment will have been flown?
Next question is (if unable to do the above)... can I be put on the upgrade list? If so, how? Also, would that go by whether the segment shows business sAAver availability?
THanks
Sep 30, 2019, 6:17 pm
#492
Join Date: May 2008
Programs: AA PLT 2MM
Posts: 2,026
Absolutely madding. Damn impossible to redeem now.
Here's just one example of what should be a simple domestic itinerary (and kind of crummy that it has a connection now since they ceded the market to AC and WS):
I can find this
And I can also find this
But they won't let me piece together this.
They are deliberately forcing extremely long connections on us using this married segment nonsense.
I tried agent one, I HUCA'd and tried with agent two, and HUCA'd again and tried with agent three. Struck out on all three. System will not allow them to piece together the desired itinerary (photo #3 ) despite the fact that there's availability on the segments.
It has been a very long time since I've been able to redeem for anything reasonable (at sAAver level).
Here's just one example of what should be a simple domestic itinerary (and kind of crummy that it has a connection now since they ceded the market to AC and WS):
I can find this
And I can also find this
But they won't let me piece together this.
They are deliberately forcing extremely long connections on us using this married segment nonsense.
I tried agent one, I HUCA'd and tried with agent two, and HUCA'd again and tried with agent three. Struck out on all three. System will not allow them to piece together the desired itinerary (photo #3 ) despite the fact that there's availability on the segments.
It has been a very long time since I've been able to redeem for anything reasonable (at sAAver level).
Last edited by thehawk75; Sep 30, 2019 at 7:09 pm
Sep 30, 2019, 9:03 pm
#493
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CLT
Programs: AA EXP; Avis PC; Hertz PC; Marriott LT Gold; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,133
Absolutely madding. Damn impossible to redeem now.
Here's just one example of what should be a simple domestic itinerary (and kind of crummy that it has a connection now since they ceded the market to AC and WS):
[snip]
They are deliberately forcing extremely long connections on us using this married segment nonsense.
I tried agent one, I HUCA'd and tried with agent two, and HUCA'd again and tried with agent three. Struck out on all three. System will not allow them to piece together the desired itinerary (photo #3 ) despite the fact that there's availability on the segments.
It has been a very long time since I've been able to redeem for anything reasonable (at sAAver level).
Here's just one example of what should be a simple domestic itinerary (and kind of crummy that it has a connection now since they ceded the market to AC and WS):
[snip]
They are deliberately forcing extremely long connections on us using this married segment nonsense.
I tried agent one, I HUCA'd and tried with agent two, and HUCA'd again and tried with agent three. Struck out on all three. System will not allow them to piece together the desired itinerary (photo #3 ) despite the fact that there's availability on the segments.
It has been a very long time since I've been able to redeem for anything reasonable (at sAAver level).
I always see either a 12 hour layover or an overnight when there are perfectly reasonable options in between. Oh, and don't forget the J/F sAAver where you are in F on the short hop to the hub and then in Y TATL/TPAC. Be careful not to fall for that one either.
Oct 1, 2019, 10:19 am
#494
Join Date: May 2008
Programs: AA PLT 2MM
Posts: 2,026
Yup. System is working as they expect - discourage use of miles. Going for great!
I always see either a 12 hour layover or an overnight when there are perfectly reasonable options in between. Oh, and don't forget the J/F sAAver where you are in F on the short hop to the hub and then in Y TATL/TPAC. Be careful not to fall for that one either.
I always see either a 12 hour layover or an overnight when there are perfectly reasonable options in between. Oh, and don't forget the J/F sAAver where you are in F on the short hop to the hub and then in Y TATL/TPAC. Be careful not to fall for that one either.
Rubish
Oct 1, 2019, 8:20 pm
#495
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: AA MM PP, MR LT Plat, Globalist
Posts: 1,004
BA.com becomes a lot less useful now (for searching segment by segment)
We mostly used BA.com to search segment by segment. But now, one segment (say HKG-LAX), may be available when searching HKG-LAX-PVG, but may not be available when searching for HKG-LAX-SIN. Therefore, it no longer makes sense to search segment by segment.
Does this logic sound right?
What we need is a award search tool that effectively searches for all possible routings between our desired origin and destination.