Jan 3, 2018, 5:05 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
AA has increased award availability at the SAAver / MileSAAver level, apparently at the cost of reducing the availability of nonstop and direct routing and increasing availability requiring connections using married segment logic.
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Link to Boarding Area: Sunday Reader Question: What are married segments?
Link to Worldspan page with extensive information on MSL and coding.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
Married Segment Logic and Effects on Awards
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Married segment logic controls routings based on origin and destination, rather than segment-by-segment availability. Boarding Area
From Amadeus: Married Segment Control Link
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
- Ensures more effective forecasting by preventing O&D misuse and matching revenue forecasts with final revenues.
- Improves consistency of sales processes by controlling travel agent selling behaviour.
- Fully customisable and flexible solution that meets airline unique system requirements.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
More award availability restricted by married segments / connections
Mar 15, 2018, 5:44 pm
#121
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: stl
Programs: AA LT Plat/8.1mm now with 1350 miles left in my account and proud of it.. SPG LT Titanium.
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I am trying to book aaa to bbb to ccc and there is no availability. However there is availability aaa-bbb and bbb-ccc. It is the Caribbean so it should be 17.5 in saver but by not letting me book it as one ticket it’s is essentially an anytime award. Will a phone call to aa help?
Mar 15, 2018, 6:48 pm
#122
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I am trying to book aaa to bbb to ccc and there is no availability. However there is availability aaa-bbb and bbb-ccc. It is the Caribbean so it should be 17.5 in saver but by not letting me book it as one ticket it’s is essentially an anytime award. Will a phone call to aa help?
Mar 15, 2018, 6:56 pm
#123
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: stl
Programs: AA LT Plat/8.1mm now with 1350 miles left in my account and proud of it.. SPG LT Titanium.
Posts: 3,082
My take is that they have some way of determining when an award gives the customer to high of value for their points.
Interestingly enough for 25k I can book business pop-mia with a coach downgrade on mia-stl which is actually the leg I would want in business
Last edited by abk; Mar 15, 2018 at 7:09 pm
Mar 15, 2018, 7:17 pm
#124
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pop-mia-stl. I just spoke with an AA agent and a supervisor who confirmed that there was no availability pop-stl but that there was availability on each individual segment. Listening to them both trying to explain this was laughable; however, I did get the feeling after the call ended that they both started with a scripted answer. In effect they are saying there are no awards available in the pop-stl market even though both components are clearly available.
My take is that they have some way of determining when an award gives the customer to high of value for their points.
Interestingly enough for 25k I can book business pop-mia with a coach downgrade on mia-stl which is actually the leg I would want in business
My take is that they have some way of determining when an award gives the customer to high of value for their points.
Interestingly enough for 25k I can book business pop-mia with a coach downgrade on mia-stl which is actually the leg I would want in business
What about trying for POP-MIA-STL-somewhere else? Add on a STL-ORD or STL-DFW etc segment the following day. If you were able to get it on hold or ticketed, you could then call AA and see about dropping the segment, which is sometimes easier that combining or adding to a reservation. If that didn't work, then just no-show for it.
Mar 15, 2018, 7:30 pm
#125
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: stl
Programs: AA LT Plat/8.1mm now with 1350 miles left in my account and proud of it.. SPG LT Titanium.
Posts: 3,082
That's a weird one, I've never seen it where the segments are available on their own but not together as a connection.
What about trying for POP-MIA-STL-somewhere else? Add on a STL-ORD or STL-DFW etc segment the following day. If you were able to get it on hold or ticketed, you could then call AA and see about dropping the segment, which is sometimes easier that combining or adding to a reservation. If that didn't work, then just no-show for it.
What about trying for POP-MIA-STL-somewhere else? Add on a STL-ORD or STL-DFW etc segment the following day. If you were able to get it on hold or ticketed, you could then call AA and see about dropping the segment, which is sometimes easier that combining or adding to a reservation. If that didn't work, then just no-show for it.
Mar 15, 2018, 8:59 pm
#126
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AA PLT, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,405
This nonsense might be the last straw for me. Earlier this month I was trying to string together an award itin using AA pesos. FRA-DFW was available in U, DFW-OKC was available in T, but they weren't available "together" so no number of calls to AA worked. I called multiple times and explained that I knew DFW-OKC would be a voluntary downgrade but can we please book it as a single ticket. One AAgent actually got quite belligerent with me and said "don't you think if that ticket was available that I would book it for you?" Ended up just using UA miles instead. What an utter joke of a FFP.
Mar 16, 2018, 3:37 pm
#127
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This nonsense might be the last straw for me. Earlier this month I was trying to string together an award itin using AA pesos. FRA-DFW was available in U, DFW-OKC was available in T, but they weren't available "together" so no number of calls to AA worked. I called multiple times and explained that I knew DFW-OKC would be a voluntary downgrade but can we please book it as a single ticket. One AAgent actually got quite belligerent with me and said "don't you think if that ticket was available that I would book it for you?" Ended up just using UA miles instead. What an utter joke of a FFP.
Mar 16, 2018, 3:39 pm
#128
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AA PLT, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,405
I'm well aware of that and have done so multiple times (don't really have much of a choice at times) - but what I don't get is the complete absurdity of offering a U or T seat in one instance and not the other. But if AA makes you happy then suit yourself.
Mar 16, 2018, 3:45 pm
#129
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I have more AA miles then I do UA miles, I just learned how to play the game and not allow it to get me upset. There are bigger issues than redeeming miles and not getting your way.
Mar 16, 2018, 6:50 pm
#131
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You might also try getting yourself some BA Avios, and book POP-MIA for 7,500 Avios, and MIA-STL for an additional 7,500 Avios -- with or without a stopover in MIA.
Mar 16, 2018, 9:20 pm
#132
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,625
This nonsense might be the last straw for me. Earlier this month I was trying to string together an award itin using AA pesos. FRA-DFW was available in U, DFW-OKC was available in T, but they weren't available "together" so no number of calls to AA worked. I called multiple times and explained that I knew DFW-OKC would be a voluntary downgrade but can we please book it as a single ticket. One AAgent actually got quite belligerent with me and said "don't you think if that ticket was available that I would book it for you?" Ended up just using UA miles instead. What an utter joke of a FFP.
Mar 16, 2018, 10:40 pm
#134
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
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Posts: 8,318
In my case, no.
I have MCO-MIA-MAD-MUC booked with MCO MIA on AA in coach but the rest in IB biz.
I have a 11 hour layover in MIA, and waiting for a later MCO-MIA. There is one available as part ofCO-MIA-MAD on an all AA coach award but not I’m conjunction with IB biz.
I have MCO-MIA-MAD-MUC booked with MCO MIA on AA in coach but the rest in IB biz.
I have a 11 hour layover in MIA, and waiting for a later MCO-MIA. There is one available as part ofCO-MIA-MAD on an all AA coach award but not I’m conjunction with IB biz.
