Jan 3, 2018, 5:05 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
AA has increased award availability at the SAAver / MileSAAver level, apparently at the cost of reducing the availability of nonstop and direct routing and increasing availability requiring connections using married segment logic.
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space theyve opened up is on connecting flights. Theyre offering married segment availability award space thats highly restrictive...
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game Americans New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when youre searching for award space... youll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Link to Boarding Area: Sunday Reader Question: What are married segments?
Link to Worldspan page with extensive information on MSL and coding.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space theyve opened up is on connecting flights. Theyre offering married segment availability award space thats highly restrictive...
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game Americans New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
Married Segment Logic and Effects on Awards
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when youre searching for award space... youll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Married segment logic controls routings based on origin and destination, rather than segment-by-segment availability. Boarding Area
From Amadeus: Married Segment Control Link
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
- Ensures more effective forecasting by preventing O&D misuse and matching revenue forecasts with final revenues.
- Improves consistency of sales processes by controlling travel agent selling behaviour.
- Fully customisable and flexible solution that meets airline unique system requirements.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
More award availability restricted by married segments / connections
Jan 15, 2018 | 12:23 pm
#76
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Just tried this and have been told by two different Exec Plat agents that American sent a memo 'within the last week' stating that married segments cannot be split. In order to drop a first segment, award availability must be otherwise present on the second segment in order to maintain booking on the second segment.
I had a booked Saaver Award ticket, A-B-C. B-C was what I wanted. But now in order to drop A-B and keep B-C, there must be Saaver availability on B-C to complete the change. So this negates the whole intent of unlocking this secret inventory.
This loophole may now be closed, be advised. Anyone getting a different outcome?
I had a booked Saaver Award ticket, A-B-C. B-C was what I wanted. But now in order to drop A-B and keep B-C, there must be Saaver availability on B-C to complete the change. So this negates the whole intent of unlocking this secret inventory.
This loophole may now be closed, be advised. Anyone getting a different outcome?
Im wondering how they will know its a married segment originally. If its all connections , this is a huge adverse change impacting award changes.
Last edited by beachfan; Jan 15, 2018 at 1:19 pm
Jan 15, 2018 | 1:47 pm
#78
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It is very easy to identify it ; if it is a transit, then if married sector availability is used on that route, then system will automatically be able to identify it
Jan 15, 2018 | 2:09 pm
#79
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But that doesnt mean there was only married segment availability, does it?
couldnt it have been available as independent segments as well as married?
couldnt it have been available as independent segments as well as married?
Jan 15, 2018 | 2:23 pm
#80
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it is easy for it to cater for an attempt to drop a sector where it is married to another segment to ensure that both segments would need to be dropped
Jan 15, 2018 | 2:31 pm
#81
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There would have to be standalone availability when dropping a segment in order to be able to make the change - in which case there is no availability issue anyway
it is easy for it to cater for an attempt to drop a sector where it is married to another segment to ensure that both segments would need to be dropped
it is easy for it to cater for an attempt to drop a sector where it is married to another segment to ensure that both segments would need to be dropped
that was not true last year, you didnt need current availability on segments you werent changing.
Whether its possible to do it right is irrelevant. I dont think its easy to know and record at time of booking that stand alone segments were not available. its not just a Y/N question when booking AA-BB CC-DD-EE
If one knows there is separate segment award availability, as well as married segment availability, how can one ensure that AA recognizes that and allows changes to one segment regardless of current availability on the others
Last edited by beachfan; Jan 15, 2018 at 2:36 pm
Jan 15, 2018 | 2:41 pm
#82
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that was not true last year, you didnt need current availability on segments you werent changing.
Whether its possible to do it right is irrelevant. I dont think its easy to know and record at time of booking that stand alone segments were not available. its not just a Y/N question when booking AA-BB CC-DD-EE
If one knows there is separate segment award availability, as well as married segment availability, how can one ensure that AA recognizes that and allows changes to one segment regardless of current availability on the others
If one knows there is separate segment award availability, as well as married segment availability, how can one ensure that AA recognizes that and allows changes to one segment regardless of current availability on the others
If this is a new policy -- that dropping a segment requires current availability on all remaining segments -- that's obviously a significant though unsurprising (given the new married segment availability) devaluation.
Jan 15, 2018 | 9:04 pm
#83
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that was not true last year, you didn’t need current availability on segments you weren’t changing.
Whether it’s possible to do it right is irrelevant. I don’t think it’s easy to know and record at time of booking that stand alone segments were not available. its not just a Y/N question when booking AA-BB CC-DD-EE
If one knows there is separate segment award availability, as well as married segment availability, how can one ensure that AA recognizes that and allows changes to one segment regardless of current availability on the others
If , at time of making change, there is availability for the standalone flight, then there is no issue making a change
This is not new, this is how married segment availability is designed to work, just that AA seems not to have used it in the past
For availbility, it is only availability at time of making a change that matters
Jan 15, 2018 | 10:59 pm
#84
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It doesn't matter what availability was at time of booking, what matters is what the availability is at time of making the change
If , at time of making change, there is availability for the standalone flight, then there is no issue making a change
This is not new, this is how married segment availability is designed to work, just that AA seems not to have used it in the past
It is only historical fares that it uses. If making a change after departure, historical fares are used
For availbility, it is only availability at time of making a change that matters
If , at time of making change, there is availability for the standalone flight, then there is no issue making a change
This is not new, this is how married segment availability is designed to work, just that AA seems not to have used it in the past
It is only historical fares that it uses. If making a change after departure, historical fares are used
For availbility, it is only availability at time of making a change that matters
Jan 15, 2018 | 11:58 pm
#85
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There is no rule change - awards have always been based on availability being available to book them
Jan 16, 2018 | 12:48 am
#86
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AA allowed the dropping of a segment at any time as long as the new origin and destination is in the same pair of regions (ie the award would cost the same). This is dropping a segment, not changing an award; no availability has to be there for the retained segment. (@JonNYC provided the internal documentation when this policy was instituted a few years ago.) Therefore, if I book, for example, BOS-ORD-NRT, by the rule, I can drop BOS-ORD without changing the price, irrespective of award availability when I drop the segment. Before married segment availability, this wasnt a loophole: if BOS-ORD-NRT was available, ORD-NRT was available, so the only reason to drop BOS-ORD was legitimately changing my mind. AA doesnt tell me when I book that I only got that ticket because of married segment availability, so I expect to be able to drop BOS-ORD. If theyre now saying I cant, thats a significant and negative change for those using this drop segment rule as intended (ie not as a loophole to use hidden city award ticketing).
Jan 16, 2018 | 1:02 am
#87
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With married sector availability, with a normal ticket, if booked A-B-C and then wish to drop A-B, then
if this is not a flight pair where married sectors are set up,, then no issue
If it is a flight pair where married sector availability is used, then B-C will rebook into an available class and any change fee and fare difference will apply
Being able to drop a sector without incurring the change fee is the benefit that AA offers ; I don't see that there is anything stated that the fee exemption for dropping a sector was "irrespective of award availability "
For some , married sectors are a benefit, for others a drawback. It can mean that those needing to connect now have a better chance of getting a desired award
It allows an airline to assist those needing to book connections by segmenting availability between those that just booking hub-hub vs those needing to connect to get to a destination; instead of , say, 4 flights from hub-hub, it can be split between those wanting hub-hub and those needing to connect
On paid tickets, it is a way of limiting availability from cheap routes vs more expensive. Have seen on QR a lot of times where A-B and B-C have been available for a discount business ticket whilst a very cheap A-C via B has been unavailable.
if this is not a flight pair where married sectors are set up,, then no issue
If it is a flight pair where married sector availability is used, then B-C will rebook into an available class and any change fee and fare difference will apply
Being able to drop a sector without incurring the change fee is the benefit that AA offers ; I don't see that there is anything stated that the fee exemption for dropping a sector was "irrespective of award availability "
For some , married sectors are a benefit, for others a drawback. It can mean that those needing to connect now have a better chance of getting a desired award
It allows an airline to assist those needing to book connections by segmenting availability between those that just booking hub-hub vs those needing to connect to get to a destination; instead of , say, 4 flights from hub-hub, it can be split between those wanting hub-hub and those needing to connect
On paid tickets, it is a way of limiting availability from cheap routes vs more expensive. Have seen on QR a lot of times where A-B and B-C have been available for a discount business ticket whilst a very cheap A-C via B has been unavailable.
Last edited by Dave Noble; Jan 16, 2018 at 1:09 am
Jan 16, 2018 | 8:41 am
#88
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its well known and I de done it many times.
if this is being applied on a route basis, without regard to what was available at the begonning, in means youll almost never be able to change anything on that route, regardless of whether you needed married segment logic at the time to book the connection, or whether individual segments are available. Because likely there is ZERO additional award availability on the segment you already booked as an award and want to keep.
And I dont believe AAs IT department is capable of introducing it on an individual ticket basis, where it knows which of the segments on an itinerary were stand alone available and which were married segments.
if this is being applied on a route basis, without regard to what was available at the begonning, in means youll almost never be able to change anything on that route, regardless of whether you needed married segment logic at the time to book the connection, or whether individual segments are available. Because likely there is ZERO additional award availability on the segment you already booked as an award and want to keep.
And I dont believe AAs IT department is capable of introducing it on an individual ticket basis, where it knows which of the segments on an itinerary were stand alone available and which were married segments.
Paid tickets are irrelevant.
Last edited by beachfan; Jan 16, 2018 at 8:49 am
Jan 16, 2018 | 8:56 am
#89
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it’s well known and I de done it many times.
if this is being applied on a route basis, without regard to what was available at the begonning, in means you’ll almost never be able to change anything on that route, regardless of whether you needed married segment logic at the time to book the connection, or whether individual segments are available. Because likely there is ZERO additional award availability on the segment you already booked as an award and want to keep.
And I don’t believe AAs IT department is capable of introducing it on an individual ticket basis, where it knows which of the segments on an itinerary were stand alone available and which were married segments.
if this is being applied on a route basis, without regard to what was available at the begonning, in means you’ll almost never be able to change anything on that route, regardless of whether you needed married segment logic at the time to book the connection, or whether individual segments are available. Because likely there is ZERO additional award availability on the segment you already booked as an award and want to keep.
And I don’t believe AAs IT department is capable of introducing it on an individual ticket basis, where it knows which of the segments on an itinerary were stand alone available and which were married segments.
Paid tickets are irrelevant.
Where married segment availability exists, then if making a connection it is only married sector availbility that matters at time of booking. Whether standalone was available is irrelevant at time of booking. Same in reverse; if starting with availability standalone, cannot add a connecting sector unless married sector availability exists
Jan 16, 2018 | 9:31 am
#90
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It doesn't matter what availability was at original time, what matters is availability at time of change --- I cannot see AA having difficulty with that
Where married segment availability exists, then if making a connection it is only married sector availbility that matters at time of booking. Whether standalone was available is irrelevant at time of booking. Same in reverse; if starting with availability standalone, cannot add a connecting sector unless married sector availability exists
Where married segment availability exists, then if making a connection it is only married sector availbility that matters at time of booking. Whether standalone was available is irrelevant at time of booking. Same in reverse; if starting with availability standalone, cannot add a connecting sector unless married sector availability exists
Nothing has indicated that AA is implementing married logic as you outline it (i.e., that the reverse holds true). You have always been able to add segments to existing awards if available.