bse118

Sure - that's why I said "I would go further." It's an opinion. Not a fact.

Everyone operates under different travel polices and personal travel interruption risk tolerance.

cmd320

Of course it wouldn't be an equivalent trade, but it isn't as though these situations are routine. Speaking of extremely limited, in the rare chance an event happens where one would need to cancel/refund and re-book on another airline, the savings from other trips would likely more than balance out the rare need for a walk-up fare.

Dave Noble

With $1900 to spend on the ticket, I think it will

Regardless, since the airline has liability to provide "re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity" , there would be a strong case under EU261 if the airline failed to provide such travel, to claim the difference

You can believe that if you wish and the old carriers will be happy if you continue believing that

bse118

Let's not assume that every trip comes out of the same budget and that costs are assessed on a net basis and not a per trip basis. (For example - Trip A is paid for by client A; Trip B by client B. If Trip B goes pear-shaped - Client B isn't going to care that savings from Trip A will cover a walk-up on Trip B).

And what if it's the proverbial once-a-year dream vacation?

Cancel/refund/rebook is a tool, a sometimes useful tool, but a very limited one.

Agreed that regular ops are more likely that irregular ones. Remember, this discussion started in response to the following quote. My hub connection is more likely than not going to be fine - so the premise that I am subjecting myself to a nightmarish unreliable hub is, shall we say, flawed.

---------------------

Will it? The oneway walk-up on DEN-LHR tomorrow is ~$2900. The walk-up with a return in one week is also ~2900. Norwegian's advanced fares on DEN-LGW will be well below that.

Does EU261 allow you to both cancel/refund and at the same time claim the statutory compensation?

I honestly don't know...but someone who does can answer.



It's not a belief. I have been re-routed on alliance and interline partners many times in IRROPs. You can't do that if you don't have alliance and interline partners. That's simple fact.

Whether the costs are overall more/less/same is a nontrivial calculation.

rjw242

Bit of a straw man, isn't it, since any rational person would buy the walk-up roundtrip ticket for around half that.

inpd

[QUOTE=BearX220;28622516
No, but they are relevant to fewer and fewer people. [/QUOTE]

But isn't that the same things as saying they are on the way out?

rjw242

Not if the people they're relevant to are worth more and more to the airlines.

Dave Noble

Yes it does




I can remember both times that I wanted to be rebooked on a different carrier - the likelihood is very small.

Looking at DEN-LHR , it would cost $1588 for a walk up roundtrip flight to London on Icelandair

brytpa

Norwegian was one example among many, but I don't think anyone here is saying "Either go FF with a legacy carrier, or only shop low cost airlines like Norwegian."

What many of us are saying is we're total free agents, not focused on AA or Norwegian or anyone else. So rather than only look at AA for either short domestic travel or even long haul dream vacation trips to Europe, we're shopping around for the best deal we can get - best deal on price, itinerary, even equipment, or whatever other factors we care about most when traveling. That might be Norwegian for a particular trip; it might be Delta; it might even still be AA; it might be BA or whomever else.

So the whole scenario where you're stranded in some random airport with no options might not even come about because the best option you found on a flight was with an airline that still has plenty of backup flights to put you on. It might not be an issue because you have no connections or layovers and no transiting through any hubs cause you picked yourself a direct flight.

It might not be an issue because... well... the vast majority of times you travel, it won't be an issue! I can probably count on one hand the times I've needed any kind of rerouting because of such a total failure with the original schedule/plan/itinerary/equipment and still have a couple fingers to spare, and the only times it did happen involved missing a connection that might not have existed if I hadn't been forced to transit through a hub. Not everyone is willing to limit their options to a single carrier, possibly pay higher prices for dozens of flights throughout the year, and always find themselves going through a designated set of hubs just in case everything hits the fan on one of those flights. Some of us also find it unappealing to put up with all of that in the hopes we someday and once in a rare while get to cash in some miles or redeem some awards that seem to get even harder and harder to use and less and less valuable with each new year.

Productivity

I agree it makes little sense to be loyal and I'm not. But as your travel increases, your chances of running into disruptions approaches a certainty. I think it's hard to argue that LCCs provide reasonable rerouting options, look through the various other airline forums and it's very clear that you are taking a major risk. If you value your time poorly enough and/or don't fly enough to take a risk on that, you are welcome to, good luck to you and I hope you save plenty of $.

Personally, in the last year I've had four major disruptions and each time, an established legacy carrier rebooked me and I arrived within 6 hours of my original arrival time (in two cases, booking on other airlines, outside of alliance without a complaint). I'm not sure how much money I could have saved flying LCCs, but it would have to be very significant ($10k+) to be worth those days that I got to spend at home instead of away.

abk

I am of the school that you can no longer rely on the legacy carriers to rebook you the same day or even the next in the event of disruptions and this becomes even more certain as your status gets lower. In peak seasons and major weather events AA and the other legacy carriers can literally take days to get you somewhere. Earlier this year I was flying Raleigh-Clt-Stl and an insignificant snow/ice storm crippled AA at Rdu while the other carriers operated quite normally. They told me two days to get home and I bought a ticket on Delta for $148 for that evening. As they tighten load factors I think this will happen more and more.

As an aside, I was looking at my account this am and saw my progress towards Platinum Pro and the $9000 threshold and am much happier buying what I want on the airline I want than trying to give AA 9 grand so I can be upgraded more.

rjw242

Oddly enough, this year will be my cheapest EXP requalification ever. Curious to see if there are any noticeable changes in upgrade success, etc after Jan. 31.

gengar

The further irony for me is that the last time I needed rerouting, it was during the BA IT fiasco - and BA's route network and alliance membership was of absolutely no benefit.

And as abk mentioned, the trend among legacy carriers to shrink to profitability means fewer available seats to handle irrops.

brytpa

Are those really the only variables at play here?

Couldn't someone value their time well enough to not want to deal with the layovers and connections flying through a legacy carrier's hubs might involve?

Or not want to accept the increased risk connections and hubs involve? After all, it seems to me the [albeit remote] risk you'll need to be rerouted increases with each connection you add to an itinerary. You mention the risk increases as travel increases, and that applies to connections and layovers as well. If you're passing up direct, nonstop options and turning a 2 flight roundtrip affair in to a 4 flight roundtrip affair, you've likely added a fair amount of potential risk to the equation (not to mention those additional hours of travel time the layovers tack on).

Or maybe someone actually just values value more. Sure, time is money. But money is also money, and if other airlines offer up cheaper options it seems strange to suggest you're getting no value out of saving money, but are getting value out of insulating oneself from the theoretical risk of a reroute situation that may or may not ever materialize.

And, again, it doesn't always come down to legacy vs. low-cost. Taking an upcoming flight from LAS-BOS I have coming up as an example - sure I could put myself at Spirit's mercy for a cheap and direct flight if I wanted to. Or I could pay a wee bit more to fly AA through either PHX or DFW. But I chose to pay $15 more than the AA option for a nonstop flight with JetBlue, and JetBlue is hardly low-cost a la Spirit, nor are they likely to leave me with no other options if some unpleasant circumstance arises.

GaryZ

That was mostly my point, thanks ^

OTOH, I've had amazingly bad luck transiting through DFW the past few years, mostly WX, but pretty much everything else... As a "PHX-captive" AA gets to dictate my connections in order to maximize their profits, however by enjoying occasional free-agent status, I'm relieved of this onerous burden.