I finally ended my loyalty to AA and I love it....
Jul 28, 2017, 9:20 pm
#47
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NV
Programs: Marriott LT Gold; AAdvantage Gold; HH Gold
Posts: 141
As a comparison, when I decided to redeem my last chunk of AA miles when quitting AAdvantage, I had to redeem 230k miles and pay about $1400 in fees and surcharges for business class (because an award search returned only partner airline options for a range of about 2 weeks, and fees/surcharges on award travel can be considerable with those). 230,000 miles and $1400. And the itineraries kinda sucked. And only 3 of the 6 legs were business (since only economy was available on all others).
My last round trip premium economy flight with Norwegian to London? $1200 total.
Jul 28, 2017, 9:48 pm
#48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SFO/OAK/SJC
Programs: AA LT PLT, 2.15 million miles; Priority Club PLT
Posts: 987
AA lost my loyalty when they axed the oneworld Explorer awards, or whatever they were called. The ones where you could book a single award for up to 16 segments using several partners. Those enabled me to travel to some amazing destinations at great redemption levels. I did a round-the-world in (mostly) J trip once piggy-backing these awards for 250K miles. In the current award structure, it would cost more like 2.5 million miles.
Luckily I made Lifetime Platinum prior to that so I still prefer AA when the playing field is level, but I definitely just go with whoever has the best fares generally now. It is less stressful in many ways haha.
Luckily I made Lifetime Platinum prior to that so I still prefer AA when the playing field is level, but I definitely just go with whoever has the best fares generally now. It is less stressful in many ways haha.
Jul 28, 2017, 11:08 pm
#49
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Bangkok, Thailand. No longer Palm Coast, FL though still exiled, again, from the Bay Area.
Programs: Only the good ones
Posts: 5,153
You know what's sad? Basic economy fares on American that say:
- no checked bags without a fee (Southwest gives you two)
- only one personal item (Southwest gives you one carryon)
- board absolutely last and get bad seat selection (you can board pretty early on Southwest if you check in at T-24, no cost)
- can't change or cancel the flight, it's either fly as ticketed or throw away (Southwest lets you change or cancel without fee, funds can be reused for travel for a year after date of purchase)
On a one to three hour flight (which is Southwest's wheel house, the 500-1500 mile flight), I couldn't possibly care less if I got a full can of coke or some mediocre blast-chilled and then reheated mass produced meal, or if I have to line up to board and pick a seat. But I sure DO care that I can cancel or change my ticket and only pay a fare difference, or take a reasonable amount of carryon luggage for $0.
(To be honest, I often don't even care if I get an upgrade on that short a flight. Mediocre free booze and mediocre food? Meh. First class seat? Well, OK, but on a 2-3 hour flight I am fine with coach at the right time over first at the wrong time or with a connection.)
And now that the majors have dumbed their experience down to Spirit/Frontier levels, the message they send to a lot of the public is "you shouldn't care about service, you're all going to get the same bad product no matter where you buy it, on Spirit or American, so the only thing that matters is price". This is a selling point for Southwest, Jet Blue and Alaska.
- no checked bags without a fee (Southwest gives you two)
- only one personal item (Southwest gives you one carryon)
- board absolutely last and get bad seat selection (you can board pretty early on Southwest if you check in at T-24, no cost)
- can't change or cancel the flight, it's either fly as ticketed or throw away (Southwest lets you change or cancel without fee, funds can be reused for travel for a year after date of purchase)
On a one to three hour flight (which is Southwest's wheel house, the 500-1500 mile flight), I couldn't possibly care less if I got a full can of coke or some mediocre blast-chilled and then reheated mass produced meal, or if I have to line up to board and pick a seat. But I sure DO care that I can cancel or change my ticket and only pay a fare difference, or take a reasonable amount of carryon luggage for $0.
(To be honest, I often don't even care if I get an upgrade on that short a flight. Mediocre free booze and mediocre food? Meh. First class seat? Well, OK, but on a 2-3 hour flight I am fine with coach at the right time over first at the wrong time or with a connection.)
And now that the majors have dumbed their experience down to Spirit/Frontier levels, the message they send to a lot of the public is "you shouldn't care about service, you're all going to get the same bad product no matter where you buy it, on Spirit or American, so the only thing that matters is price". This is a selling point for Southwest, Jet Blue and Alaska.
Most of the time, FC is merely good coach. Airline food hasn't been edible on the domestic carriers for decades. Recently did QR business and their food was pretty good. And, I was only paying $1500 for RT business.
I tried Frontier DEN-PBI non-stop as they had like a $4 base fare. Came out to about $80 with premium seat and baggage including checked and unchecked, but still lower than AA at the time and they were a one-stop. I survived it with a bulkhead seat, though row 2 looked better. I'd consider them if there is enough of a price difference. Obviously, not flying them back to BKK.
Jul 28, 2017, 11:25 pm
#50
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,392
http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea....earnings-call/
"United has said that American’s continued adoption of Basic Economy is good for their business, but American continues to play the greater fool being goaded into what’s good for their competitors instead of themselves even though they do acknowledge in the call “some share shift” they benefit from today. They expect to roll out Basic Economy across the rest of its domestic network by the end of September."
Jul 29, 2017, 1:16 am
#51
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Bangkok, Thailand. No longer Palm Coast, FL though still exiled, again, from the Bay Area.
Programs: Only the good ones
Posts: 5,153
That's changing really soon now according to the latest investor quarterly conference call.
http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea....earnings-call/
"United has said that American’s continued adoption of Basic Economy is good for their business, but American continues to play the greater fool being goaded into what’s good for their competitors instead of themselves even though they do acknowledge in the call “some share shift” they benefit from today. They expect to roll out Basic Economy across the rest of its domestic network by the end of September."
http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea....earnings-call/
"United has said that American’s continued adoption of Basic Economy is good for their business, but American continues to play the greater fool being goaded into what’s good for their competitors instead of themselves even though they do acknowledge in the call “some share shift” they benefit from today. They expect to roll out Basic Economy across the rest of its domestic network by the end of September."
Jul 29, 2017, 6:46 am
#52
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
That's changing really soon now according to the latest investor quarterly conference call.
http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea....earnings-call/
"United has said that American’s continued adoption of Basic Economy is good for their business, but American continues to play the greater fool being goaded into what’s good for their competitors instead of themselves even though they do acknowledge in the call “some share shift” they benefit from today. They expect to roll out Basic Economy across the rest of its domestic network by the end of September."
http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea....earnings-call/
"United has said that American’s continued adoption of Basic Economy is good for their business, but American continues to play the greater fool being goaded into what’s good for their competitors instead of themselves even though they do acknowledge in the call “some share shift” they benefit from today. They expect to roll out Basic Economy across the rest of its domestic network by the end of September."
Jul 29, 2017, 7:29 am
#53
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
You know what's sad? Basic economy fares on American...
On a one to three hour flight (which is Southwest's wheel house, the 500-1500 mile flight), I couldn't possibly care less if I got a full can of coke... or if I have to line up to board and pick a seat.
...now that the majors have dumbed their experience down to Spirit/Frontier levels, the message they send to a lot of the public is "you shouldn't care about service, you're all going to get the same bad product no matter where you buy it, on Spirit or American, so the only thing that matters is price".
On a one to three hour flight (which is Southwest's wheel house, the 500-1500 mile flight), I couldn't possibly care less if I got a full can of coke... or if I have to line up to board and pick a seat.
...now that the majors have dumbed their experience down to Spirit/Frontier levels, the message they send to a lot of the public is "you shouldn't care about service, you're all going to get the same bad product no matter where you buy it, on Spirit or American, so the only thing that matters is price".
I gravitate as a customer to clarity, fairness, and congeniality. The US big three have discarded those values.
No, but they are relevant to fewer and fewer people. If you are loyal to DL in order to save miles to take your family overseas in business class, and you're banking 500 RDMs here and 800 RDMs there while the "price" of your goal reward is more than 1,000,000 miles and can change without warning at the airline's whim anytime, that is stupid consumer behavior. Miles as a currency justify no faith or confidence.
Jul 29, 2017, 8:04 am
#54
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: TK*G (E+), IHG Plat Ambassador
Posts: 7,884
DY is great when everything works, if it doesn't well, better check the Other European Airlines forum to read the horror'ish stories...
Just saying...
Jul 29, 2017, 9:09 am
#55
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: New York, New York
Programs: AA Gold, Alaska MVP; Free Agent Super Duper Diamond Treasure Chest ;)
Posts: 4,682
No, but they are relevant to fewer and fewer people. If you are loyal to DL in order to save miles to take your family overseas in business class, and you're banking 500 RDMs here and 800 RDMs there while the "price" of your goal reward is more than 1,000,000 miles and can change without warning at the airline's whim anytime, that is stupid consumer behavior. Miles as a currency justify no faith or confidence.
That being said, airline miles are a currency that should be spent sooner rather than later for the reasons you mentioned. Saving up for that trip of a lifetime may not work out that well, when the time to make the trip arrives.
Used to be, in the hunt for status, I'd seldom use award tickets for myself and would rather have the family use them. Now, unless a deal stares me in the face, I make it a point to burn miles rather than cash.
Jul 29, 2017, 10:20 am
#56
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LAS ORD
Programs: AA Pro (mostly B6) OZ♦ (flying BR/UA), BA Silver Hyatt LT, Wynn Black, Cosmo Plat, Mlife Noir
Posts: 5,992
Like many others in this thread, for most of my flying life I have been single-carrier loyal. It was not always to the same carrier, but when I was with a program I wouldn't even check prices on competitors and wouldn't even consider taking a nonstop on a competitor over a 1-stop on my airline.
The reality is that it's easier for customers to be loyal to one company. When I was single-carrier loyal, I only needed one website and one application and I always parked in the same spot in the long term garage and I knew where every possible gate was and I had all my frequent flier miles in the same place. I was about to type that I now have 5 airline apps on my phone, but I just checked it and I actually have 8.
The reality is I'd rather be single-carrier loyal. But legacy carriers, especially in recent years, have repeatedly proven that they don't deserve our loyalty. Hence why so many FT'ers have become free agents, despite being members of a forum where being a free agent has historically been strongly discouraged.
Jul 29, 2017, 1:09 pm
#57
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,605
If there is a cancellation/long delay, unlike AA from US, there would be (at current exchange rates) $705 compensation for the delay/cancellation as well as entitlement to a refund of the fare if not wanting to wait
Also, of course, regardless of delay reason, the airline has to provide food/drinks and pay for accommodation if there is an overnight delay ( and choose not to cancel ) regardless of the reason for the delay
Much better protection that AA offers
Jul 29, 2017, 1:21 pm
#58
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
What is the frequency of such events ?
If there is a cancellation/long delay, unlike AA from US, there would be (at current exchange rates) $705 compensation for the delay/cancellation as well as entitlement to a refund of the fare if not wanting to wait
Also, of course, regardless of delay reason, the airline has to provide food/drinks and pay for accommodation if there is an overnight delay ( and choose not to cancel ) regardless of the reason for the delay
Much better protection that AA offers
If there is a cancellation/long delay, unlike AA from US, there would be (at current exchange rates) $705 compensation for the delay/cancellation as well as entitlement to a refund of the fare if not wanting to wait
Also, of course, regardless of delay reason, the airline has to provide food/drinks and pay for accommodation if there is an overnight delay ( and choose not to cancel ) regardless of the reason for the delay
Much better protection that AA offers
Although the customers still need to fight for the legally protected compensation but it is miles better than what the US airlines would ever offer.
Jul 29, 2017, 1:27 pm
#59
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sun Prairie, WI
Programs: AA Executive Platinum, HH Diamond, National Executive
Posts: 1,786
What is the frequency of such events ?
If there is a cancellation/long delay, unlike AA from US, there would be (at current exchange rates) $705 compensation for the delay/cancellation as well as entitlement to a refund of the fare if not wanting to wait
Also, of course, regardless of delay reason, the airline has to provide food/drinks and pay for accommodation if there is an overnight delay ( and choose not to cancel ) regardless of the reason for the delay
Much better protection that AA offers
If there is a cancellation/long delay, unlike AA from US, there would be (at current exchange rates) $705 compensation for the delay/cancellation as well as entitlement to a refund of the fare if not wanting to wait
Also, of course, regardless of delay reason, the airline has to provide food/drinks and pay for accommodation if there is an overnight delay ( and choose not to cancel ) regardless of the reason for the delay
Much better protection that AA offers
I think the point a few people are making here is that it's great to shop around but you also need to be smart about it an recognize potential consequences.
Jul 29, 2017, 1:28 pm
#60
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NV
Programs: Marriott LT Gold; AAdvantage Gold; HH Gold
Posts: 141
Getting so monumentally screwed over by an airline is never fun.
But what I think some of us are pointing out here is it's also no fun to deal with the more incremental, if not-quite-monumental, ways in which loyalty to a particular airline becomes less and less appealing. Perhaps none of it makes for a good horror story, but the gradual devaluation of miles; increased difficulty in redeeming awards; unappealing itineraries on award options; forgoing cheaper flights on other airlines to stick with one in particular, can all nonetheless chip away at the incentive to be loyal to a particular airline.
And look... I understand that really any airline is treating me like one nameless commodity among many. I don't expect them to go out of their way for my sake at the expense of what they find makes sense for their bigger picture and their bottom line. If I'm finding it a hassle to use systemwide upgrades or redeem miles or am frustrated at having to pay change fees and such, I'm sure there's some reason AA justifies that within the context of all they have going on and all the ways in which they're entitled to pursue profits and make the numbers work out for them. At the end of the day, being a free agent is simply me viewing airlines the same way they view us - one option among countless many, competing not only with one another but also with what suits my circumstances and bigger picture every time I need to fly somewhere.
