Leadership Shake Up; Kirby to United, Isom named President 29 Aug 2016
Aug 30, 2016, 12:00 pm
#46
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I couldn't care less about his personal achievements, I wouldn't personally even let him run a Starbucks branch.That isn't the point. The problem here is that United is actually on a positive trend at the moment and Kirby will immediately find a way to end that and turn it into a complete operational disaster as he and Doug have successfully done with AA.
Seems UA has a well rounded management team, transitions are never easy but many believe they have a lot of upside. Will be interesting to see what network, fleet, JV/alliance changes he implements over time.
Aug 30, 2016, 12:09 pm
#47
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Why would he go and "turn UA into an operational disaster"? Clearly you have some emotional dislike for him and the USAIR management. I'm not a fan of their style either, but no one can deny they have a deep understanding of this industry and have produced results with the hand they've been dealt.
It's pretty simple, deliver a good product at an acceptable price and I'll like what you're doing. Otherwise, get lost.
Aug 30, 2016, 1:11 pm
#48
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Results such as the worst on-time percentage in the nation? Results such as the worst labor relations in the industry? Results such as the worst product in the country? Other than those, I'm not sure which results you're talking about.
It's pretty simple, deliver a good product at an acceptable price and I'll like what you're doing. Otherwise, get lost.
It's pretty simple, deliver a good product at an acceptable price and I'll like what you're doing. Otherwise, get lost.
Aug 30, 2016, 1:14 pm
#49
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What? The hand they've been dealt? You mean large, powerful hubs at DFW and MIA (and untapped potential at ORD and LAX), a respectable presence at JFK/LGA (while split, still worked), not to mention a large, loyal (probably to a fault) FF base? What was by far the best FFP and arguably the best in flight product of the US3? Sure there were labor issues and distrust of former management, but for the LCC crew to come in and decimate AA into the mess that it is today is really mind-boggling. It's not like Dougie and crew were merging with Air Koryo.
Last edited by no1cub17; Aug 30, 2016 at 1:56 pm
Aug 30, 2016, 1:17 pm
#50
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An employment lawyer can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it would be unusual to put a noncompete in a termination (or employment) agreement if the employee ends up being involuntarily terminated, which, as far as we can tell, is what happened here. Certainly not without even more extraordinary compensation. And that's besides the fact that noncompetes are unenforceable in many states (not sure about Texas, and not sure if Texas or Illinois law would ultimately matter).
The termination agreement does contain standard confidentiality clauses, and it does have a non-solicitation (but he can hire anybody that AA fires).
I also have a feeling--although we're venturing into speculation
--that Kirby knew he was getting the boot, reached out to UA confidentially (i.e., AA didn't know about it), negotiated his severance with AA, and then just before he signed the agreement yesterday and just before his departure was made public (or was it immediately thereafter?), dropped the news about UA.
The termination agreement does contain standard confidentiality clauses, and it does have a non-solicitation (but he can hire anybody that AA fires).
I also have a feeling--although we're venturing into speculation
--that Kirby knew he was getting the boot, reached out to UA confidentially (i.e., AA didn't know about it), negotiated his severance with AA, and then just before he signed the agreement yesterday and just before his departure was made public (or was it immediately thereafter?), dropped the news about UA.
Aug 30, 2016, 2:48 pm
#51
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Certainly more than a Starbucks manager... at least the Starbucks near me.
Aug 30, 2016, 2:50 pm
#52
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COO was/is Isom. Kirby never had an operations background. Isom was brought from in from NW to handle operations at US in 2007.
So let's review, the guy responsible for last in ontime stats just got a promotion
Aug 30, 2016, 2:58 pm
#53
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Why would he go and "turn UA into an operational disaster"? Clearly you have some emotional dislike for him and the USAIR management. I'm not a fan of their style either, but no one can deny they have a deep understanding of this industry and have produced results with the hand they've been dealt. Aside from the town halls (take place at hubs/major employment centers of the company and are broadcast on JetNet) he tends to keep to himself and away from the rank and file. Doug is the face of the C-suite for many of them.
Seems UA has a well rounded management team, transitions are never easy but many believe they have a lot of upside. Will be interesting to see what network, fleet, JV/alliance changes he implements over time.
Seems UA has a well rounded management team, transitions are never easy but many believe they have a lot of upside. Will be interesting to see what network, fleet, JV/alliance changes he implements over time.
Results such as the worst on-time percentage in the nation? Results such as the worst labor relations in the industry? Results such as the worst product in the country? Other than those, I'm not sure which results you're talking about.
It's pretty simple, deliver a good product at an acceptable price and I'll like what you're doing. Otherwise, get lost.
It's pretty simple, deliver a good product at an acceptable price and I'll like what you're doing. Otherwise, get lost.
Aug 30, 2016, 3:10 pm
#55
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,324
Why would he go and "turn UA into an operational disaster"? Clearly you have some emotional dislike for him and the USAIR management. I'm not a fan of their style either, but no one can deny they have a deep understanding of this industry and have produced results with the hand they've been dealt. Aside from the town halls (take place at hubs/major employment centers of the company and are broadcast on JetNet) he tends to keep to himself and away from the rank and file. Doug is the face of the C-suite for many of them.
Seems UA has a well rounded management team, transitions are never easy but many believe they have a lot of upside. Will be interesting to see what network, fleet, JV/alliance changes he implements over time.
Seems UA has a well rounded management team, transitions are never easy but many believe they have a lot of upside. Will be interesting to see what network, fleet, JV/alliance changes he implements over time.
Love this from Brian Summers:
Originally Posted by Skift
Some inside the industry had criticized United’s former leadership, saying it took former Continental executives too long to embrace what it meant to operate a truly global airline. Continental had only two international hubs — Houston and Newark —and, while the airline was successful on routes to Europe and Latin America, it did not operate on the same worldwide scale as pre-merger United, which had more hubs and more international routes, flying to cities as far away as Dubai, Singapore, and Ho Chi Minh City.
At least Kirby spent some time at a true global flag carrier before coming to UAL.
Aug 30, 2016, 6:19 pm
#57
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It's very clear one of Munoz's primary mandates was to clean house and separate itself from it's "subsidiary" [CO] mindset. Thankfully, the truth about the Continental leadership has come to light, and is now accepted mainstream thought.
Love this from Brian Summers:
https://skift.com/2016/08/29/united-...t-scott-kirby/
At least Kirby spent some time at a true global flag carrier before coming to UAL.
Love this from Brian Summers:
Originally Posted by Skift
Some inside the industry had criticized United’s former leadership, saying it took former Continental executives too long to embrace what it meant to operate a truly global airline. Continental had only two international hubs — Houston and Newark —and, while the airline was successful on routes to Europe and Latin America, it did not operate on the same worldwide scale as pre-merger United, which had more hubs and more international routes, flying to cities as far away as Dubai, Singapore, and Ho Chi Minh City.
Some inside the industry had criticized United’s former leadership, saying it took former Continental executives too long to embrace what it meant to operate a truly global airline. Continental had only two international hubs — Houston and Newark —and, while the airline was successful on routes to Europe and Latin America, it did not operate on the same worldwide scale as pre-merger United, which had more hubs and more international routes, flying to cities as far away as Dubai, Singapore, and Ho Chi Minh City.
https://skift.com/2016/08/29/united-...t-scott-kirby/
At least Kirby spent some time at a true global flag carrier before coming to UAL.
I'm referring to the situation at US Airways 2006-2013. They arguably had many strategic limitations and challenges with respect to their network, fleet, and situation with labor. Many ill-informed observers here (and elsewhere) would cite the Nicolau award, subsequent litigation and creation of USAPA, but that was entirely beyond their control. I'm no fan of the current management team but the emotional hatred some display here is outrageous and really speaks more to the posters here than the C-level executives making 10s of millions each and every year and who have a working understanding the airline industry above and beyond anyone here.
Last edited by AAerSTL; Aug 30, 2016 at 6:28 pm
Aug 30, 2016, 6:38 pm
#58
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The situation in which the management team in question stripped out IFE and power (or in some cases never had it to begin with), charged customers for water, sold elite status as a product, and flew a fleet of newish planes which were generally in awful condition from secondary hubs across a relatively limited network?
Yeah, at least back then the flights were on time and the airline was operationally somewhat reliable, but that's really all that can be said of pre-merger US Airways, and the reality is that this one positive attribute was not carried over to the combined airline by this management group.
Yeah, at least back then the flights were on time and the airline was operationally somewhat reliable, but that's really all that can be said of pre-merger US Airways, and the reality is that this one positive attribute was not carried over to the combined airline by this management group.
Aug 30, 2016, 6:43 pm
#59
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My AA wisdom is dated and all of this is nothing but my unsolicited opinion, but I'm pretty certain of a few things. One of those is the clear line of demarcation between "ops" and "marketing". Another is the constant battle between the two. I think the ops people have finally gotten the upper hand because the operational meltdown at AA has gotten bad enough that the right people are noticing and the right customers may be screaming loud enough. There is an employee relations component to the meltdown that current management is only now coming to grips with that will take time too. While I think "fired" may be a bit of an overstatement when it comes to Scott, it's apparent that no one was blocking the door on his way out. I really do think AA will get well, and this is just one dose of bitter medicine to get things going. And for the record, I think Scott may be just the right guy for UA at the right time too.
Aug 30, 2016, 6:47 pm
#60
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The situation in which the management team in question stripped out IFE and power (or in some cases never had it to begin with), charged customers for water, sold elite status as a product, and flew a fleet of newish planes which were generally in awful condition from secondary hubs across a relatively limited network?
Yeah, at least back then the flights were on time and the airline was operationally somewhat reliable, but that's really all that can be said of pre-merger US Airways, and the reality is that this one positive attribute was not carried over to the combined airline by this management group.
Yeah, at least back then the flights were on time and the airline was operationally somewhat reliable, but that's really all that can be said of pre-merger US Airways, and the reality is that this one positive attribute was not carried over to the combined airline by this management group.