Jun 18, 2016, 2:27 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
oneworld announces alliance airlines no longer required to honor missed connections or interline baggage for those on separate PNRs
NOTE: See AA Protection on separate oneworld tickets / PNR
AA policy: “Through Checked Baggage Policy – Separate Tickets“ - see PDF available attached to post #1.
Background:
oneworld airlines are not required to provide connecting passenger protection of through checked baggage to passengers on separate PNRs; individual airlines may still choose to do so, but it is not required. AA, BA, QF (9/2016) have modified their policies regarding connection protection and baggage through checking of passengers flying on separate PNRs. Read on. (Yes, it means on separate PNRs AA won't even through check on AA to AA - link to ODF.))
Qatar Airways / QR has verified as of 1 March 2017 they will interline baggage on separate PNRs. They must be the first airline (not one honoring the original oneworld policy) one checks in with, and the connection must meet MCT (usually two hours). See more in post quoted below, and link to Australian Business Traveller article. (26 Feb 2017)
MH / Malaysia Airlines STILL HONOR connection protection and through checking / interlining on separate PNRs.
Cathay Pacific and Cathay Dragon reversed their policy and through check baggage on separate PNRs as of 1 Jan 2017. See post #1.
JL / Japan Airlines began through checking to oneworld partners again in Oct 2016.
Qatar Airways will through check baggage to oneworld partners if it’s the trip origin airline.
See Wikipost for this thread in oneworld forum for the list of oneworld airlines and known through checking policies.
Link to American Airlines' policy on through checking baggage as of 1 Sep 2016. Notice that different protocols are followed in IROPS / OSO conditions.
As well, “if you book an award ticket and a paid ticket at the same time, there are mixed reports here of well trained agents being able to combine these into a single PNR at the time of booking, which enables bags to be through checked. But this takes a good agent, probably several HUCAs, and can only be done at the time of booking. “ - JJeffrey
When issuing separate tickets it is important your customer be informed that American is unable to ‘through-check' bags with 2 separate tickets (PNRs) if they are traveling on American and non-oneworld carriers. This will result in an airport check-in representative collecting the required baggage fees based on each airline's established policies.
Please advise the customer to allow additional time to claim their baggage, present the required travel documents to enter the country, if relevant, and meet check-in requirements for the connecting flight. The Minimum Connecting Time (MCT) will usually not be sufficient when the customer has separate tickets issued for each airline.
Link
(One PNR can be comprised of several tickets - up to 16, if memory serves.)
Those also announcing they will NOT HONOR connection protection and through checking / interlining on separate PNRs, even on oneworld airline partners. (AA still honors connection protection if your next flight is on AA.)
E.g. CX new policy in line with above:
NOTE: CX will still offer protection and baggage interlining between Cathay Pacific and Cathay Dragon.
Link to update of Aus BT article with airline announcements of their positions
On FT: oneworld no longer interlining between separate tickets / PNRs?
On FT: BA no longer interlining baggage with separate tickets
On FT: CX will not interline to other oneworld airlines if travelling on separate PNRs
On FT: JAL will continue to interline to other oneworld carriers on separate PNRs (4 Oct 2016)
On FT: Qantas - no checking of luggage separate itineraries from 1 Sep (2016) [some exceptions]
Archived previous thread: ARCHIVE: Change to through-checking Oct 2014 (interlining) baggage on separate tickets
Updated 26 Feb 2017 - JDiver
NOTE: See AA Protection on separate oneworld tickets / PNR
AA policy: “Through Checked Baggage Policy – Separate Tickets“ - see PDF available attached to post #1.
Background:
Originally Posted by OAG
According to OAG’s most recent report, “Self-Connection: The Rise and Roadblocks of a Growing Travel Booking Strategy,” 40 percent of U.S. travellers are bypassing typical booking practices, such as through an airline, travel agency or OTA, and are beginning to self-connect when they travel.
Self-connecting passengers are defined as those that book separate tickets to fly from City A to City C, via City B.
Already popular in Europe, self-connecting is beginning to increase in popularity in the U.S. market as passengers look to save money. Passengers can mix and match airlines in order to score the best deal or connect through a city they would like to visit on the way to their final destination. But what are some of the roadblocks and challenges to successfully self-connect, and how can airlines or airports make this process easier?
According to OAG’s most recent report, “Self-Connection: The Rise and Roadblocks of a Growing Travel Booking Strategy,” 40 percent of U.S. travellers are bypassing typical booking practices, such as through an airline, travel agency or OTA, and are beginning to self-connect when they travel.
Self-connecting passengers are defined as those that book separate tickets to fly from City A to City C, via City B.
Already popular in Europe, self-connecting is beginning to increase in popularity in the U.S. market as passengers look to save money. Passengers can mix and match airlines in order to score the best deal or connect through a city they would like to visit on the way to their final destination. But what are some of the roadblocks and challenges to successfully self-connect, and how can airlines or airports make this process easier?
Qatar Airways / QR has verified as of 1 March 2017 they will interline baggage on separate PNRs. They must be the first airline (not one honoring the original oneworld policy) one checks in with, and the connection must meet MCT (usually two hours). See more in post quoted below, and link to Australian Business Traveller article. (26 Feb 2017)
MH / Malaysia Airlines STILL HONOR connection protection and through checking / interlining on separate PNRs.
Cathay Pacific and Cathay Dragon reversed their policy and through check baggage on separate PNRs as of 1 Jan 2017. See post #1.
JL / Japan Airlines began through checking to oneworld partners again in Oct 2016.
Qatar Airways will through check baggage to oneworld partners if it’s the trip origin airline.
See Wikipost for this thread in oneworld forum for the list of oneworld airlines and known through checking policies.
Link to American Airlines' policy on through checking baggage as of 1 Sep 2016. Notice that different protocols are followed in IROPS / OSO conditions.
As well, “if you book an award ticket and a paid ticket at the same time, there are mixed reports here of well trained agents being able to combine these into a single PNR at the time of booking, which enables bags to be through checked. But this takes a good agent, probably several HUCAs, and can only be done at the time of booking. “ - JJeffrey
Code:
Through Checked Baggage Policy (AA, 1 Sep 2016) (link to PDF) To align American Airlines (AA) with our oneworld partners and to reduce baggage mishandlings, we will now only through check customers and baggage when all the tickets are in the same PNR. Through check-in will be honored between the following carriers only:
- Code:
American Airlines and American Eagle
- Code:
oneworld airlines and affiliates
Code:
What if I have separate tickets in the same PNR for itineraries with
American to a non-oneworld carrier?
"Our policy on American to non-oneworld airline tickets has not changed.
We will not through check customers or bags even if the tickets are in
the same PNR."
What would be the bag charges if the customer holds separate tickets
in separate PNRs?
American will not through check a customer’s bag, regardless if it is
a oneworld carrier. The customer will need to collect their bag at
the final destination on the AA ticket. They will pay for the bag on the
second ticket when they recheck it. This may involve exiting the secure
area, then claiming and re-checking the bags. The Minimum Connecting
Time (MCT) will usually not be sufficient when the customer has separate
tickets issued for each airline.
International flights on separate PNRs (or to non-oneworld carriers) will usually require claiming bags, clearing customs and rechecking bags on another carrier to be continued to their next destination.
What will customers be charged if we can through check the bag?
The charges would depend on what tickets the customer holds in the same PNR.
Do Alaska and our other codeshare/interline partners count as affiliate airlines?
No, the oneworld affiliate airlines are generally the regional partners of the other oneworld carriers. If a customer held an AS ticket and an AA ticket in the same PNR we would not through check the bag. They would need to reclaim then recheck their bag with AS.
Please advise the customer to allow additional time to claim their baggage, present the required travel documents to enter the country, if relevant, and meet check-in requirements for the connecting flight. The Minimum Connecting Time (MCT) will usually not be sufficient when the customer has separate tickets issued for each airline.
Link
(One PNR can be comprised of several tickets - up to 16, if memory serves.)
Australian Business Traveller (in part): “Despite the two airlines' (AA and QF) joint venture across the Pacific, check-in staff are no longer obliged to tag your baggage through to your final destination from September 1 2016 if your flights are booked separately (separate ONRs) rather than under the one reservation.”
Instead, those bags will only be tagged as far as the destination shown on each individual booking – not where you’re actually headed at the end of the trip. Both Qantas and American Airlines have confirmed the new arrangements to Australian Business Traveller.
Instead, those bags will only be tagged as far as the destination shown on each individual booking – not where you’re actually headed at the end of the trip. Both Qantas and American Airlines have confirmed the new arrangements to Australian Business Traveller.
E.g. CX new policy in line with above:
"+ oneworld Ticketing and Disruption Policy 01 Jun 2016
Separate Ticket Policy - Revised Through Check in Handling
With effect from 01 Jun 2016, all oneworld carriers have agreed that through* check-in will apply ONLY to passengers travelling on an oneworld itinerary ticketed on a single ticket or where segments are ticketed separately but in the same PNR.
*=Through services are defined as the customer and their baggage being through checked to their final destinations.
To align with the change, disruption policy will also be revised to exclude protection for passengers holding separate tickets that is not booked under the same PNR."
Separate Ticket Policy - Revised Through Check in Handling
With effect from 01 Jun 2016, all oneworld carriers have agreed that through* check-in will apply ONLY to passengers travelling on an oneworld itinerary ticketed on a single ticket or where segments are ticketed separately but in the same PNR.
*=Through services are defined as the customer and their baggage being through checked to their final destinations.
To align with the change, disruption policy will also be revised to exclude protection for passengers holding separate tickets that is not booked under the same PNR."
Oneworld (sic) communications chief Michael Blunt tells Australian Business Traveller that “individual member airlines are free to offer service above and beyond the (Oneworld) alliance minimum standard if they so choose, so some may continue to offer through check-in for customers travelling on separate bookings.”
"All our member airlines will be delighted to continue to check them and their baggage through to any of the 1,000 plus destinations on the alliance network, on multiple sectors,” Blunt says, “provided the itinerary is all on one booking so we are aware of where they and their baggage want to end up and we can plan accordingly and ensure the best possible customer service delivery throughout the journey.”
M. Blunt, as quoted in Australian Business Traveller
"All our member airlines will be delighted to continue to check them and their baggage through to any of the 1,000 plus destinations on the alliance network, on multiple sectors,” Blunt says, “provided the itinerary is all on one booking so we are aware of where they and their baggage want to end up and we can plan accordingly and ensure the best possible customer service delivery throughout the journey.”
M. Blunt, as quoted in Australian Business Traveller
Gary Leff, View from the Wing, 16 Aug 2016: reached out to American and learned this new policy goes into effect September 1 although I’m not sure how they can retroactively apply it to tickets purchased before the new policy was implemented.
There’s one small saving grace. Customers traveling on separate tickets where one segment is an award ticket and another has been purchased can through-check bags. Travel must be on American or oneworld partners, and not on partners outside the oneworld alliance (like Etihad or Air Tahiti Nui). Tickets much be in the same reservation. Link
There’s one small saving grace. Customers traveling on separate tickets where one segment is an award ticket and another has been purchased can through-check bags. Travel must be on American or oneworld partners, and not on partners outside the oneworld alliance (like Etihad or Air Tahiti Nui). Tickets much be in the same reservation. Link
"
As of June 1, 2016, the oneworld alliance has eliminated these benefits for passengers booked on separate tickets. Oneworld carriers no longer have to check your bags through to other oneworld carriers if booked on a separate ticket, and no longer have to protect you in the event of a misconnect when on separate tickets."
Link to full article in Boarding Area
- If you’re booked on two separate PNRs on oneworld carriers, you’ve previously been able to check your bags through to your final destination
- If you’re booked on two separate tickets on oneworld carriers, you’ve been protected in the event of a misconnect or cancelation
As of June 1, 2016, the oneworld alliance has eliminated these benefits for passengers booked on separate tickets. Oneworld carriers no longer have to check your bags through to other oneworld carriers if booked on a separate ticket, and no longer have to protect you in the event of a misconnect when on separate tickets."
Link to full article in Boarding Area
"In a move which could cause connection chaos for many travellers, airlines belonging to the Oneworld (sic) alliance ... are no longer required to check passengers and their baggage through to their final destination on some connecting flights.
"The new scheme, which came into effect from June 1st (2016), impacts passengers whose journey involves flights on more than one airline where their travel encompasses more than one booking, rather than all flights being listed under a single booking reference. "
But, good news for those flying Qatar Airways:
Link to full article on Australian Business Traveller
"The new scheme, which came into effect from June 1st (2016), impacts passengers whose journey involves flights on more than one airline where their travel encompasses more than one booking, rather than all flights being listed under a single booking reference. "
But, good news for those flying Qatar Airways:
Important change! Qatar Airways has announced they will no longer adhere to oneworld's draconian baggage transfer policy when flights are booked on separate PNRs.
As long as MCT / minimum connection times are met, QR will interline baggage on separate oneworld PNRs as of 1 March 2017.
Australian Business Traveller found the change in the QR ground services manual issued 23 Feb 2017, verified by a QR spokesperson.
NOTE: If one is beginning travel with a one world airline adhering to the oneworld policy and continuing on Qatar, one flying on separate PNRs is still going to have to collect baggage and recheck with QR.
E.g. SFO-LAX on AA, LAX-DOH-CMB on QR, two PNRs - the first sector on AA, remainder on QR, AA will not respect QR ground handling rules so one will have to recover baggage at LAX and transfer it to the QR checkin counter.
(Added to Wikipost 26 Feb 2017)
As long as MCT / minimum connection times are met, QR will interline baggage on separate oneworld PNRs as of 1 March 2017.
Australian Business Traveller found the change in the QR ground services manual issued 23 Feb 2017, verified by a QR spokesperson.
NOTE: If one is beginning travel with a one world airline adhering to the oneworld policy and continuing on Qatar, one flying on separate PNRs is still going to have to collect baggage and recheck with QR.
E.g. SFO-LAX on AA, LAX-DOH-CMB on QR, two PNRs - the first sector on AA, remainder on QR, AA will not respect QR ground handling rules so one will have to recover baggage at LAX and transfer it to the QR checkin counter.
(Added to Wikipost 26 Feb 2017)
Link to full article on Australian Business Traveller
On FT: oneworld no longer interlining between separate tickets / PNRs?
On FT: BA no longer interlining baggage with separate tickets
On FT: CX will not interline to other oneworld airlines if travelling on separate PNRs
On FT: JAL will continue to interline to other oneworld carriers on separate PNRs (4 Oct 2016)
On FT: Qantas - no checking of luggage separate itineraries from 1 Sep (2016) [some exceptions]
Archived previous thread: ARCHIVE: Change to through-checking Oct 2014 (interlining) baggage on separate tickets
Updated 26 Feb 2017 - JDiver
Separate ticketing / PNR: AA, oneworld, through baggage & protection issues > 2016
Aug 21, 2016, 10:46 pm
#182
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: stl
Programs: AA LT Plat/8.1mm now with 1350 miles left in my account and proud of it.. SPG LT Titanium.
Posts: 3,082
They seem to want to make it more and more difficult for real flyers to be loyal to AA and also OneWorld. It just seems to me that they are trying to fix a system that isn't broken so that they can milk us for a few more bucks. I think the appropriate saying is "stepping over dollars to pick up pennies."
Aug 21, 2016, 11:27 pm
#183
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,624
"Real flyers" are probably not trying to pay low prices by booking journeys starting at obscure locations and then booking cheap flights to then start those journeys or buying tickets to cheap destination and then separately booking onwards
The flyers that , when wanting to go to A-B, buy a ticket from A to B ( potentially via another airport ) are not going to be impacted.
There are benefits of buying separate tickets ( and I happily take advantage of those benefits ) but I can also accept ( and plan accordingly ) that 2 separate tickets are just that
Given that its partners will not provide the benefit, it seems unsurprising that AA may also not
Seems odd that if having AA flight and then a BA flight that AA would (assumedly as an agent ) pay the charges for changes etc for the BA journey when billed as an agent whilst BA would simply refuse to do it in the other direction
Of course , maybe AA will not change its protection policy
The flyers that , when wanting to go to A-B, buy a ticket from A to B ( potentially via another airport ) are not going to be impacted.
There are benefits of buying separate tickets ( and I happily take advantage of those benefits ) but I can also accept ( and plan accordingly ) that 2 separate tickets are just that
Given that its partners will not provide the benefit, it seems unsurprising that AA may also not
Seems odd that if having AA flight and then a BA flight that AA would (assumedly as an agent ) pay the charges for changes etc for the BA journey when billed as an agent whilst BA would simply refuse to do it in the other direction
Of course , maybe AA will not change its protection policy
Aug 22, 2016, 8:23 am
#184
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Programs: AA Plat, SPG/Marriot Gold, HHonors Diamond, Hyatt Expl
Posts: 2,363
There are far less nefarious reasons to book separate tickets than the implied cheating of the airlines in the above statement.
Aug 22, 2016, 9:06 am
#185
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,698
It just adds oneworld to the list of things that AA doesn't think it needs in order to keep you paying them money. I agree with others that this seems like it's probably a really bad optimization that will make them the same or less money while making their customers really, really unhappy, but I'm sure some genius MBA has done a model that says it'll all be good.
Aug 22, 2016, 2:49 pm
#186
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,624
Other than saving money over a through fare or
not wanting to pay a change fee and fare difference on an existing booking to change A-B to A-C ( or B-C to A-C )
I cannot see many reasons why someone would book 2 separate tickets
Aug 22, 2016, 4:44 pm
#187
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AA PLT, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,405
You're joking right? So if I want to fly CX PE out of ORD or LAX (or wherever) but neither CX not AA can construct the itinerary I want by themselves and we're forced to buy two separate revenue tickets, that somehow makes us cheapskates and bad passengers? Are you kidding? This is just one example. What if we bought a ticket to HKG or LHR then changed our plans and booked a separate BA or CX segment to our new destination (which we would've booked solely because they are oneworld) - that somehow makes us bad passengers? Are you kidding me?
Aug 22, 2016, 4:54 pm
#188
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,624
You're joking right? So if I want to fly CX PE out of ORD or LAX (or wherever) but neither CX not AA can construct the itinerary I want by themselves and we're forced to buy two separate revenue tickets, that somehow makes us cheapskates and bad passengers? Are you kidding? This is just one example. What if we bought a ticket to HKG or LHR then changed our plans and booked a separate BA or CX segment to our new destination (which we would've booked solely because they are oneworld) - that somehow makes us bad passengers? Are you kidding me?
You may need to speak to a reservations agent or a travel agent, but end on end ticketing is a standard offering
If you book a ticket to HKG and LHR and then wish to change it, subject to fare rules and change fees and fare differences, it can be changed to the new destination. It may be cheaper to book it separately than change the existing booking , but there are drawbacks
Aug 22, 2016, 4:57 pm
#189
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AA PLT, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,405
Aug 22, 2016, 5:02 pm
#190
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,624
Checking CX fares from ORD-HKG, the cheapest premium economy fare states
END-ON-END
END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED. VALIDATE ALL FARE
COMPONENTS. FARES MUST BE SHOWN SEPARATELY ON THE
TICKET. TRAVEL MUST BE VIA THE POINT OF COMBINATION.
SIDE TRIPS PERMITTED.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY RULE IN ANY PUBLIC TARIFF.
END-ON-END
END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED. VALIDATE ALL FARE
COMPONENTS. FARES MUST BE SHOWN SEPARATELY ON THE
TICKET. TRAVEL MUST BE VIA THE POINT OF COMBINATION.
SIDE TRIPS PERMITTED.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY RULE IN ANY PUBLIC TARIFF.
Aug 22, 2016, 7:24 pm
#191
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat; Bonvoy Titanium Lifetime Elite;Hyatt Globalist; HHonors Diamond; United Silver
Posts: 8,317
And I bet there few who would rebook a restricted ticket just to make AA happy. How many times do you think having to pick up bags and reclear security will it take to alienate a customer. For me, it would be the straw that broke the camels back. It's a disaster on award tickets given the competency level of AA agents.
Aug 22, 2016, 8:43 pm
#193
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,698
1) Yes, AA would prefer that you just pay them more money.
2) But in reality, that's probably not going to happen and in fact may drive away business because it will lead to a bunch of bad customer experiences.
So overall, kind of a lose-lose.
Aug 22, 2016, 8:47 pm
#194
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: country Western Australia
Programs: QF SG(LTS) - AA LTG(1MM)
Posts: 2,771
I have an open issue with CX customer relations regarding a PHX-LAX-HKG-PER (long haul in PEY) ticket. If I enter PHX into the CX website, PER is not an allowed destination.
I note that there are numerous connecting flights PHX-LAX (including one that arrives 2.5 hours before my desired CX departure). It would appear that at least the CX web site can not generate an end-on-end ticket combination that is simple to construct as separate tickets. I asked if CX (USA) telephone sales could ticket and was given the USA 800 number. The connection time is likely long enough to re-check luggage but it is also short enough to incur a risk from delays (ATC?).
The other issue is that for the most part CX when ticketing in PEY (or business) will use premium fare classes for the AA connecting leg when a fare in Q/N/S will happily suffice.
Happy wandering
Fred
I note that there are numerous connecting flights PHX-LAX (including one that arrives 2.5 hours before my desired CX departure). It would appear that at least the CX web site can not generate an end-on-end ticket combination that is simple to construct as separate tickets. I asked if CX (USA) telephone sales could ticket and was given the USA 800 number. The connection time is likely long enough to re-check luggage but it is also short enough to incur a risk from delays (ATC?).
The other issue is that for the most part CX when ticketing in PEY (or business) will use premium fare classes for the AA connecting leg when a fare in Q/N/S will happily suffice.
Happy wandering
Fred
Aug 22, 2016, 8:49 pm
#195
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,624
If not prepared to pay the through fare, is it really reasonable to expect the benefits of a through fare though?
If AA ceases to provide protection against misconnections on separate tickets, there will be even more incentive
Having to collect bags on recent trip with various airlines was slightly tedious , I agree, but the cost savings made it well worthwhile
If AA ceases to provide protection against misconnections on separate tickets, there will be even more incentive
Having to collect bags on recent trip with various airlines was slightly tedious , I agree, but the cost savings made it well worthwhile