Mar 31, 2016, 5:15 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
AA Bump Rates: Volunteer Compensation / Voluntary Denied Boarding
Passengers involuntarily denied boarding on AA are denied usually after calls for volunteers to accept vouchers (and occasionally variable other benefits), usually beginning at $200 or $300 but possibly going significantly higher, depending on passenger response. See more below, including AA Conditions of Carriage.
See IDB / Involuntarily Denied Boarding on AA & Compensation (master thread) for INVOLUNTARILY denied boarding.
Link to US Dept. of Transportation Aviation Consumer Protection Division's "Fly-Rights - A Consumer Guide to Air Travel" section on Overbooking
"IDB" (involuntarily denied boarding) compensation is governed in the USA by "14 CFR 250.5 - Amount of denied boarding compensation for passengers denied boarding involuntarily".
Link to CFR §250.5; as well:
14 CFR § 250.2b Carriers to request volunteers for denied boarding.
(a) In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall request volunteers for denied boarding before using any other boarding priority. A “volunteer” is a person who responds to the carrier's request for volunteers and who willingly accepts the carriers' offer of compensation, in any amount, in exchange for relinquishing the confirmed reserved space. Any other passenger denied boarding is considered for purposes of this part to have been denied boarding involuntarily, even if that passenger accepts the denied boarding compensation.
(b) Every carrier shall advise each passenger solicited to volunteer for denied boarding, no later than the time the carrier solicits that passenger to volunteer, whether he or she is in danger of being involuntarily denied boarding and, if so, the compensation the carrier is obligated to pay if the passenger is involuntarily denied boarding. If an insufficient number of volunteers come forward, the carrier may deny boarding to other passengers in accordance with its boarding priority rules.
14 CFR § 250.9 Written explanation of denied boarding compensation and boarding priorities, and verbal notification of denied boarding compensation.
(a) Every carrier shall furnish passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from flights on which they hold confirmed reserved space immediately after the denied boarding occurs, a written statement explaining the terms, conditions, and limitations of denied boarding compensation, and describing the carriers' boarding priority rules and criteria. The carrier shall also furnish the statement to any person upon request at all airport ticket selling positions which are in the charge of a person employed exclusively by the carrier, or by it jointly with another person or persons, and at all boarding locations being used by the carrier.
Link to AA Conditions of Carriage, "Oversales"
In the European Union, EC261/2004 governs denied boarding compensation.
Link to EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints and AA (master thread)
On American Airlines, you are sometimes ineligible for IDB as allowed by the USDOT:
If a flight is oversold (more passengers hold confirmed reservations than there are seats available), no one may be denied boarding against his or her will until airline personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservation willingly, in exchange for compensation of the airline’s choosing. If there are not enough volunteers, other passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with the following boarding priority of American. In such events, American will usually deny boarding based upon check-in time, but we may also consider factors such as severe hardships, fare paid, and status within the AAdvantage® program.
If you are denied boarding involuntarily, you are entitled to a payment of
‘‘denied boarding compensation’’ from the airline unless:
- You have not fully complied with the airline’s ticketing, check-in and reconfirmation requirements, or you are not acceptable for transportation under the airline’s usual rules and practices; or
- You are denied boarding because the flight is canceled; or
You are denied boarding because a smaller capacity aircraft was substituted for safety or operational reasons; or
- On a flight operated with an aircraft having 60 or fewer seats, you are denied boarding due to safety-related weight/balance restrictions that limit payload; or
- You are offered accommodations in a section of the aircraft other than specified in your ticket, at no extra charge (a passenger seated in a section for which a lower fare is charged must be given an appropriate refund); or
- The airline is able to place you on another flight or flights that are planned to reach your next stopover or final destination within one hour of the planned arrival time of your original flight.[/code]
The previous thread is http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...solidated.html
Passengers involuntarily denied boarding on AA are denied usually after calls for volunteers to accept vouchers (and occasionally variable other benefits), usually beginning at $200 or $300 but possibly going significantly higher, depending on passenger response. See more below, including AA Conditions of Carriage.
See IDB / Involuntarily Denied Boarding on AA & Compensation (master thread) for INVOLUNTARILY denied boarding.
Link to US Dept. of Transportation Aviation Consumer Protection Division's "Fly-Rights - A Consumer Guide to Air Travel" section on Overbooking
"IDB" (involuntarily denied boarding) compensation is governed in the USA by "14 CFR 250.5 - Amount of denied boarding compensation for passengers denied boarding involuntarily".
Link to CFR §250.5; as well:
14 CFR § 250.2b Carriers to request volunteers for denied boarding.
(a) In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall request volunteers for denied boarding before using any other boarding priority. A “volunteer” is a person who responds to the carrier's request for volunteers and who willingly accepts the carriers' offer of compensation, in any amount, in exchange for relinquishing the confirmed reserved space. Any other passenger denied boarding is considered for purposes of this part to have been denied boarding involuntarily, even if that passenger accepts the denied boarding compensation.
(b) Every carrier shall advise each passenger solicited to volunteer for denied boarding, no later than the time the carrier solicits that passenger to volunteer, whether he or she is in danger of being involuntarily denied boarding and, if so, the compensation the carrier is obligated to pay if the passenger is involuntarily denied boarding. If an insufficient number of volunteers come forward, the carrier may deny boarding to other passengers in accordance with its boarding priority rules.
14 CFR § 250.9 Written explanation of denied boarding compensation and boarding priorities, and verbal notification of denied boarding compensation.
(a) Every carrier shall furnish passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from flights on which they hold confirmed reserved space immediately after the denied boarding occurs, a written statement explaining the terms, conditions, and limitations of denied boarding compensation, and describing the carriers' boarding priority rules and criteria. The carrier shall also furnish the statement to any person upon request at all airport ticket selling positions which are in the charge of a person employed exclusively by the carrier, or by it jointly with another person or persons, and at all boarding locations being used by the carrier.
Link to AA Conditions of Carriage, "Oversales"
In the European Union, EC261/2004 governs denied boarding compensation.
Link to EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints and AA (master thread)
On American Airlines, you are sometimes ineligible for IDB as allowed by the USDOT:
If a flight is oversold (more passengers hold confirmed reservations than there are seats available), no one may be denied boarding against his or her will until airline personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservation willingly, in exchange for compensation of the airline’s choosing. If there are not enough volunteers, other passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with the following boarding priority of American. In such events, American will usually deny boarding based upon check-in time, but we may also consider factors such as severe hardships, fare paid, and status within the AAdvantage® program.
If you are denied boarding involuntarily, you are entitled to a payment of
‘‘denied boarding compensation’’ from the airline unless:
- You have not fully complied with the airline’s ticketing, check-in and reconfirmation requirements, or you are not acceptable for transportation under the airline’s usual rules and practices; or
- You are denied boarding because the flight is canceled; or
You are denied boarding because a smaller capacity aircraft was substituted for safety or operational reasons; or
- On a flight operated with an aircraft having 60 or fewer seats, you are denied boarding due to safety-related weight/balance restrictions that limit payload; or
- You are offered accommodations in a section of the aircraft other than specified in your ticket, at no extra charge (a passenger seated in a section for which a lower fare is charged must be given an appropriate refund); or
- The airline is able to place you on another flight or flights that are planned to reach your next stopover or final destination within one hour of the planned arrival time of your original flight.[/code]
The previous thread is http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...solidated.html
AA Bump Rates; compensation for VDB / Voluntary Denied Boarding (master thread)
Dec 21, 2009, 9:34 am
#31
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: AA 1.5 MM Exec Plat, WN A-List, DL Silver, UA nonrev
Posts: 2,593
I think some terms are being used interchangeably that probably shouldn't be, IMHO.
Overbooked today does not mean oversold tomorrow. Overbooking occurs all the time. An oversell situation will not be known until people start showing up at the airport on the day of departure, no?
I've always thought that, generally speaking, the definitions are:
Overbook: More seats have been sold than there are seats (takes into account "no show" factor)
Oversell: More people actually "checked in" than can be be accomodated with the available seats
Overbooked today does not mean oversold tomorrow. Overbooking occurs all the time. An oversell situation will not be known until people start showing up at the airport on the day of departure, no?
I've always thought that, generally speaking, the definitions are:
Overbook: More seats have been sold than there are seats (takes into account "no show" factor)
Oversell: More people actually "checked in" than can be be accomodated with the available seats
Dec 21, 2009, 9:41 am
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 10,949
I think some terms are being used interchangeably that probably shouldn't be, IMHO.
Overbooked today does not mean oversold tomorrow. Overbooking occurs all the time. An oversell situation will not be known until people start showing up at the airport on the day of departure, no?
I've always thought that, generally speaking, the definitions are:
Overbook: More seats have been sold than there are seats (takes into account "no show" factor)
Oversell: More people actually "checked in" than can be be accomodated with the available seats
Overbooked today does not mean oversold tomorrow. Overbooking occurs all the time. An oversell situation will not be known until people start showing up at the airport on the day of departure, no?
I've always thought that, generally speaking, the definitions are:
Overbook: More seats have been sold than there are seats (takes into account "no show" factor)
Oversell: More people actually "checked in" than can be be accomodated with the available seats
Dec 24, 2009, 8:19 am
#33
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Washington, DC, USA
Programs: V-Flyer Black
Posts: 329
The flight is overbooked. I called and asked. The first AA DCA-ORD flight canceled. All the non-stops on all airlines are zero'ed out and many of the UA flights are waitlist full too.
Fact:
1) There is no inventory. No seats no where for me to go.
2) There are a 50+ in overbookings on AA and UA, each.
3) Many of the travelers on Christmas Eve are pleasure and will not change and will show up for there purchased flight.
I called AA and offered to cancel for a refund. I would either take the train to Chicago or drive. I rather fly but I rather not go to DCA and play airport to then now drive. My flight is at 4:45PM and the only train to Chicago is at 4:00PM. I offered to be rebooked now. I offered to cancel the first segment for AA Credit. All no dice.
I am unable to check in online as I do not have an assigned seat. I was not able to get a seat when I booked.
I am
.
Any suggestions of strategy?
Fact:
1) There is no inventory. No seats no where for me to go.
2) There are a 50+ in overbookings on AA and UA, each.
3) Many of the travelers on Christmas Eve are pleasure and will not change and will show up for there purchased flight.
I called AA and offered to cancel for a refund. I would either take the train to Chicago or drive. I rather fly but I rather not go to DCA and play airport to then now drive. My flight is at 4:45PM and the only train to Chicago is at 4:00PM. I offered to be rebooked now. I offered to cancel the first segment for AA Credit. All no dice.
I am unable to check in online as I do not have an assigned seat. I was not able to get a seat when I booked.
I am
. Any suggestions of strategy?
Dec 24, 2009, 8:29 am
#34
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: AAdvantage PP
Posts: 13,913
The flight is overbooked. I called and asked. The first AA DCA-ORD flight canceled. All the non-stops on all airlines are zero'ed out and many of the UA flights are waitlist full too.
Fact:
1) There is no inventory. No seats no where for me to go.
2) There are a 50+ in overbookings on AA and UA, each.
3) Many of the travelers on Christmas Eve are pleasure and will not change and will show up for there purchased flight.
I called AA and offered to cancel for a refund. I would either take the train to Chicago or drive. I rather fly but I rather not go to DCA and play airport to then now drive. My flight is at 4:45PM and the only train to Chicago is at 4:00PM. I offered to be rebooked now. I offered to cancel the first segment for AA Credit. All no dice.
I am unable to check in online as I do not have an assigned seat. I was not able to get a seat when I booked.
I am.
Any suggestions of strategy?
Fact:
1) There is no inventory. No seats no where for me to go.
2) There are a 50+ in overbookings on AA and UA, each.
3) Many of the travelers on Christmas Eve are pleasure and will not change and will show up for there purchased flight.
I called AA and offered to cancel for a refund. I would either take the train to Chicago or drive. I rather fly but I rather not go to DCA and play airport to then now drive. My flight is at 4:45PM and the only train to Chicago is at 4:00PM. I offered to be rebooked now. I offered to cancel the first segment for AA Credit. All no dice.
I am unable to check in online as I do not have an assigned seat. I was not able to get a seat when I booked.
I am
. Any suggestions of strategy?
Dec 24, 2009, 11:23 am
#35
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: AA PLAT SPG DL
Posts: 153
Weather
Take a look at the home page on AA. The winter storm is just coming in to Illinois.
Midwest Travel Policy
Due to weather in the Midwest, American Airlines offers customers the convenience to change their plans. Customers ticketed to travel on AA to, from or through the areas listed may change flights as shown without penalty.
If you are traveling to or from: On the following dates: And your ticket was issued no later than: You may begin travel as late as: Original ticketed inventory required?
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Michigan
Minnesota
Nebraska
Wisconsin December 22 - 24, 2009 December 21, 2009 December 24, 2009 Yes
One ticketed change is allowed with no penalty.
To change travel dates, contact our Reservations personnel at 1-800-433-7300 within the United States or Canada. If you are calling from outside the United States or Canada, please check our Worldwide Reservations Numbers page for Reservations.
Midwest Travel Policy
Due to weather in the Midwest, American Airlines offers customers the convenience to change their plans. Customers ticketed to travel on AA to, from or through the areas listed may change flights as shown without penalty.
If you are traveling to or from: On the following dates: And your ticket was issued no later than: You may begin travel as late as: Original ticketed inventory required?
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Michigan
Minnesota
Nebraska
Wisconsin December 22 - 24, 2009 December 21, 2009 December 24, 2009 Yes
One ticketed change is allowed with no penalty.
To change travel dates, contact our Reservations personnel at 1-800-433-7300 within the United States or Canada. If you are calling from outside the United States or Canada, please check our Worldwide Reservations Numbers page for Reservations.
Jan 1, 2010, 7:43 am
#36
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,295
In the past few months I've twice VDB's on Eagle flights. Some negotiating with the GA and I got $150 and $200 offers up to $250, but both times I was told $250 was the max. I also got cab vouchers to/from the airport each time.
3 times in the same timespan (once last week), I've heard GAs on mainland flights (all domestic) offering $400. Unfortunately, I wasn't on 2 of those flights, and for the one I was on I couldn't volunteer (they ended up getting no volunteers--it was JFK-SKB--and so they IDB'd 4 members of a family of 8 for $500 each + hotel in San Juan and onto SKB the next day).
I imagine the differences in $$ offered are the result of one of these factors:
1. AA vs. AE (most likely) AE could be capped at $250--also generally easy to reaccomodate pax on AE flights for later ones as they are quick and frequent, and AA could go higher (sounds like $400 cap on mainland domestic flights?). Despite offering to forego the cab vouchers in exchange for more AA money, I was still told $250 was the max.
2. GA location. (not likely) Both my bumps were ex-BOS, whereas the other three for $400 were ex-JFK, ex-ORD, ex-DFW. Hub makes a difference? (again, NOT likely)
3. Lies.
--Because they only needed 1 volunteer, I proactively volunteered, and I was happy to accept just about any compensation, they didn't need to up compensation and ask for more people or try to woo anyone. (also not likely).
--
Now, if only AA would get with the 21st century and give out e-vouchers that didn't have to get mailed in 3 weeks in advance or ticketed at the airport...
Ticketing at the airport is a pain and after fees makes the voucher truly less valuable.
A final observation, perhaps OT:
In the aftermath of my JFK-SKB flight, where they were offering $400 got no one and instead IDB'd 4 members of a family of 8 for $500, I ran into one of those family members (they're at the same hotel as I am) this week and asked about there experience. Sure $500 each was nice, but they were annoyed and the general consensus among the 8 of them was "I'm never flying AA again!"
When I boarded while they were still asking for $400 volunteers I jokingly said to the GA: "If you get to $800 let me know." I would've taken $800 hands down, but $400 wasn't enough for me to give up a day in the Caribbean. This was true for others on the plane I talked to as well.
Don't you think it would've been better of AA to get 4 happy volunteers for $800 or even $1000 each who would likely fly AA again than to piss off a (wealthy-looking) family of 8 who will avoid AA at all costs in the future??
I've been toiling over this and just don't understand the logic behind their move, but I guess it was circumstantial and I suppose $400 really could be the max (even for a pseudo-international flight).
Happy new year
3 times in the same timespan (once last week), I've heard GAs on mainland flights (all domestic) offering $400. Unfortunately, I wasn't on 2 of those flights, and for the one I was on I couldn't volunteer (they ended up getting no volunteers--it was JFK-SKB--and so they IDB'd 4 members of a family of 8 for $500 each + hotel in San Juan and onto SKB the next day).
I imagine the differences in $$ offered are the result of one of these factors:
1. AA vs. AE (most likely) AE could be capped at $250--also generally easy to reaccomodate pax on AE flights for later ones as they are quick and frequent, and AA could go higher (sounds like $400 cap on mainland domestic flights?). Despite offering to forego the cab vouchers in exchange for more AA money, I was still told $250 was the max.
2. GA location. (not likely) Both my bumps were ex-BOS, whereas the other three for $400 were ex-JFK, ex-ORD, ex-DFW. Hub makes a difference? (again, NOT likely)
3. Lies.
--Because they only needed 1 volunteer, I proactively volunteered, and I was happy to accept just about any compensation, they didn't need to up compensation and ask for more people or try to woo anyone. (also not likely).--
Now, if only AA would get with the 21st century and give out e-vouchers that didn't have to get mailed in 3 weeks in advance or ticketed at the airport...
Ticketing at the airport is a pain and after fees makes the voucher truly less valuable.
A final observation, perhaps OT:
In the aftermath of my JFK-SKB flight, where they were offering $400 got no one and instead IDB'd 4 members of a family of 8 for $500, I ran into one of those family members (they're at the same hotel as I am) this week and asked about there experience. Sure $500 each was nice, but they were annoyed and the general consensus among the 8 of them was "I'm never flying AA again!"
When I boarded while they were still asking for $400 volunteers I jokingly said to the GA: "If you get to $800 let me know." I would've taken $800 hands down, but $400 wasn't enough for me to give up a day in the Caribbean. This was true for others on the plane I talked to as well.
Don't you think it would've been better of AA to get 4 happy volunteers for $800 or even $1000 each who would likely fly AA again than to piss off a (wealthy-looking) family of 8 who will avoid AA at all costs in the future??
I've been toiling over this and just don't understand the logic behind their move, but I guess it was circumstantial and I suppose $400 really could be the max (even for a pseudo-international flight).
Happy new year
Jan 2, 2010, 6:52 pm
#37
Join Date: Oct 2002
Programs: Marriott Plat Premier/LT Plat; SPG Plat/LT Gold; Hilton Gold; Hyatt Plat
Posts: 2,356
Compensation for oversold flight?
Can anyone tell me what the current compesation is for an oversold flight.
Also is there a way to see what AA 1260 on 1/3 is for being oversold?
Also is there a way to see what AA 1260 on 1/3 is for being oversold?
Jan 2, 2010, 7:01 pm
#38
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SJC/VCE
Programs: AA PLT (2.9+ MM), HH GLD, Hyatt Diamond, SPG PLT
Posts: 10,161
Compensation, if any, will vary depending upon the circumstances of the bump. They will ask for volunteers and usually offer a couple of hundred dollars in the form of a travel voucher + seating on the next flight. If there are no takers, then they will offer more $$. Involuntary bumps are an entirely different situation (and far less common).
As for loads, check out expertflyer.com
As for loads, check out expertflyer.com
Jan 2, 2010, 7:53 pm
#39
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: MSY (finally); previously NYC, BOS, AUH
Programs: AA EXP, 6MM; BA GLD
Posts: 17,249
Jan 2, 2010, 8:10 pm
#40
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: AA EXP, Eurostar CB
Posts: 94
Jan 2, 2010, 8:19 pm
#41
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: AA EXP, 1 MM, AC, HH Diamond, Marriott Silver, Hertz 5*
Posts: 4,010
Jan 2, 2010, 8:38 pm
#42
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,630
Jan 2, 2010, 8:45 pm
#43
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: DFWex-BOS
Programs: AA PLTPRO, 2MM, Bonvoy PLT, NYT Monday crossword puzzle solver extraordinaire
Posts: 1,456
Jan 2, 2010, 8:52 pm
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: STL
Programs: AA 2MM, AS MVP Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 12,966
Jan 2, 2010, 9:07 pm
#45
Moderator: New York City and FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2007
Programs: AA PLT, Natl EC
Posts: 10,855
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...ing-order.html