Window shade etiquette--what should I have done?
Oct 26, 2001, 3:22 pm
#31
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: HHonors Diamond, Uk
Posts: 57
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PUCCI GALORE:
Ryker, was this British Airways? Was this First Class? </font>
Ryker, was this British Airways? Was this First Class? </font>
Yes, this was BA and no it was economy. I've never had the luxury of First Class however I don't think it matters what the class was. It was inconsiderate of the flight crew to behave like that and bully the guy. The man and his wife were elderly, which made it worse. Passengers were actually saying that making anymore fuss might cause them to land the plane. I really don't think it would have come anywhere near that happening but closest I've ever come to witnessing an 'air rage' incident. Certainly put me off BA bigtime although I still fly with them.
Oct 26, 2001, 9:32 pm
#32
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Dallas,Texas,USA, AA Gold, former CO Silver
Posts: 472
I've really enjoyed reading the tone of this thread. A "for" here, an "against" there, a "pro" here, and a "con" there.
I enjoy Flyertalk and the back and forth in this thread was nice reading. Some of the threads in the OMNI and general sections have got a little heated in the past month.
I enjoy Flyertalk and the back and forth in this thread was nice reading. Some of the threads in the OMNI and general sections have got a little heated in the past month.
Oct 28, 2001, 1:18 am
#33
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
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Posts: 7,970
I think that HKG_Flyer1 best described my opinion on the matter.
The reason that most FAs request (in some cases strongly so) that the shades be kept down at certain times on long flights is not because of some quirk in their personalities. It's a result of their personal experience, as well as the airline's, as to the preferences of the vast majority of the passengers.
As has been pointed out, it's much like a single smoker in the cabin - it can ruin the comfort and experience for everyone else. I realize that the original poster was asking an honest and civil question, and it seems that most people have provided a similar response. It also seems that a few people have taken the stance that if they sit next to the window, they can dictate what everyone else in the cabin must experience (I don't think the original poster is in this category).
I was once on a trans-pacific flight from the US where I was seated next to a friend (he had the window, I had the aisle) in business class. After the first meal service was completed, shades were lowered and most passengers went to sleep. My friend from time to time would slightly raise the window shade to look out. I had to wonder, what is there to look at? Yes, the sky is still out there, and yes, the ocean is still about 7 miles below us. Even a partial opening of a single shade dramatically raised the light level in the cabin.
For me personally, it's not that big of a deal, as I can easily sleep with a lot of light, and can sleep with an eyeshade on. But, out of respect for my fellow passengers that can't, I think keeping the shade down is common courtesy. Just my opinion.
The reason that most FAs request (in some cases strongly so) that the shades be kept down at certain times on long flights is not because of some quirk in their personalities. It's a result of their personal experience, as well as the airline's, as to the preferences of the vast majority of the passengers.
As has been pointed out, it's much like a single smoker in the cabin - it can ruin the comfort and experience for everyone else. I realize that the original poster was asking an honest and civil question, and it seems that most people have provided a similar response. It also seems that a few people have taken the stance that if they sit next to the window, they can dictate what everyone else in the cabin must experience (I don't think the original poster is in this category).
I was once on a trans-pacific flight from the US where I was seated next to a friend (he had the window, I had the aisle) in business class. After the first meal service was completed, shades were lowered and most passengers went to sleep. My friend from time to time would slightly raise the window shade to look out. I had to wonder, what is there to look at? Yes, the sky is still out there, and yes, the ocean is still about 7 miles below us. Even a partial opening of a single shade dramatically raised the light level in the cabin.
For me personally, it's not that big of a deal, as I can easily sleep with a lot of light, and can sleep with an eyeshade on. But, out of respect for my fellow passengers that can't, I think keeping the shade down is common courtesy. Just my opinion.
Oct 28, 2001, 7:24 am
#34
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Slackerville, FL USA
Posts: 1,844
There is nothing more annoying than the lone selfish flyer who must have their shade open and disturb 50 other people in the business class cabin of a 777, or 100 something people in coach.
It is true that you don't find these people in first class.
You don't think you are annoying anyone, but you are wrong. The window shade, when open, makes a broad swath of light throughout the cabin that usually shines obnoxiously on 15 peoples faces, and annoys everyone else, as they are trying to sleep or rest. These people wake up and they come and complain non-stop to the flight attendants.
One window, whether you think so or not, makes all the difference in the world in regard to passenger comfort.
As a travelling passenger, and as a crewmember, I despise those who feel the need to be so selfish.
Why don't you stop whining about your rights and think about other people around you whose sleep time you are ruining? Many of these people are catching Z's so they can conduct business the minute they get there.
It is true that you don't find these people in first class.
You don't think you are annoying anyone, but you are wrong. The window shade, when open, makes a broad swath of light throughout the cabin that usually shines obnoxiously on 15 peoples faces, and annoys everyone else, as they are trying to sleep or rest. These people wake up and they come and complain non-stop to the flight attendants.
One window, whether you think so or not, makes all the difference in the world in regard to passenger comfort.
As a travelling passenger, and as a crewmember, I despise those who feel the need to be so selfish.
Why don't you stop whining about your rights and think about other people around you whose sleep time you are ruining? Many of these people are catching Z's so they can conduct business the minute they get there.
Oct 28, 2001, 8:06 am
#35
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 740
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AAFA:
There is nothing more annoying than the lone selfish flyer who must have their shade open and disturb 50 other people in the business class cabin of a 777, or 100 something people in coach.
</font>
There is nothing more annoying than the lone selfish flyer who must have their shade open and disturb 50 other people in the business class cabin of a 777, or 100 something people in coach.
</font>
One correction: I used to be sitting in F when these incidents happened.
Oct 28, 2001, 8:27 am
#36
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Miami Beach, FL
Programs: AA EXP 3MM, BA Gold
Posts: 876
I must respectfully disagree with AAFA. First of all, I've found just as many disrespectful people in F as in any other class. Second, while I do prefer to have the window shade cracked at least a bit to get some natural light, I do go out of my way to make sure light is not directly shining on other passengers.
And what makes light in the cabin any more disrespectful than incessant talkers who never sleep (including FAs gabbing in the galleys), crying babies, toddlers roaming the cabin (often while their parents sleep), or the occasional knock in the shoulder or leg by a passing cart?
Bottom line is none of us can often spend 8-14 hours in a airplane cabin with never an annoyance. Different things bother different people, and as members of the traveling public we have to recognize that we can't control every aspect of every person's behavior.
And what makes light in the cabin any more disrespectful than incessant talkers who never sleep (including FAs gabbing in the galleys), crying babies, toddlers roaming the cabin (often while their parents sleep), or the occasional knock in the shoulder or leg by a passing cart?
Bottom line is none of us can often spend 8-14 hours in a airplane cabin with never an annoyance. Different things bother different people, and as members of the traveling public we have to recognize that we can't control every aspect of every person's behavior.
Oct 28, 2001, 9:09 am
#37
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 352
I think the guy was wrong on this one. Just because you happen to be the individual who's seated closest to three of the window shades, that does not give you the sovereign right to use them to unduly annoy the rest of the cabin. Even if you have some questionable theory about biological clocks that makes you think it is morally right to do so (a type of attitude that reminds me of the jusifications used by religious zealots for some of their actions).
Most travellers in F have little interest in resetting their biological clocks; they're not going to be at their location long enough. Being in the plane is good "down time" to put some deposits in the "sleep bank", especially considering the days to follow are likely to be hectic one, and one has to often leave the house quite early, either for the transcon flight or more probably the previous connecting leg.
If you wish to stay awake to work and/or read, that's what the interior lights are for. I think if the FA complained about you're use of them, that would be out of line. Everyone gets one set of those lights and they are dedicated for your use.
Perhaps he can get one of those light-equipped eyeshades that are used to combat Seasonal Effective Disorder, if he needs to get more light into his eyballs.
Most travellers in F have little interest in resetting their biological clocks; they're not going to be at their location long enough. Being in the plane is good "down time" to put some deposits in the "sleep bank", especially considering the days to follow are likely to be hectic one, and one has to often leave the house quite early, either for the transcon flight or more probably the previous connecting leg.
If you wish to stay awake to work and/or read, that's what the interior lights are for. I think if the FA complained about you're use of them, that would be out of line. Everyone gets one set of those lights and they are dedicated for your use.
Perhaps he can get one of those light-equipped eyeshades that are used to combat Seasonal Effective Disorder, if he needs to get more light into his eyballs.
Oct 28, 2001, 9:40 am
#38
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: So Cal
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Posts: 1,826
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AAFA:
You don't think you are annoying anyone, but you are wrong. The window shade, when open, makes a broad swath of light throughout the cabin ... annoys everyone else, as they are trying to sleep or rest.
One window, whether you think so or not, makes all the difference in the world in regard to passenger comfort.
... think about other people around you whose sleep time you are ruining? Many of these people are catching Z's so they can conduct business the minute they get there.</font>
You don't think you are annoying anyone, but you are wrong. The window shade, when open, makes a broad swath of light throughout the cabin ... annoys everyone else, as they are trying to sleep or rest.
One window, whether you think so or not, makes all the difference in the world in regard to passenger comfort.
... think about other people around you whose sleep time you are ruining? Many of these people are catching Z's so they can conduct business the minute they get there.</font>
And no, asking a room full of people to sleep with those tight, uncomfortable eyeshades on, just so one person can be thoughtless is not the answer.
In fact, to that suggestion, one could tell such a selfish pax to charter his own plane next time. Then he could justifiably continue to just think of himself. He wouldn't have to worry about anyone else's comfort.
Pleeeeease.
Oct 28, 2001, 12:00 pm
#39
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Syracuse, Boston, Athens
Posts: 995
I totally agree: If I had to keep my window closed for most of the flight, that would totally ruin my flight 
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AAFA:
One window, whether you think so or not, makes all the difference in the world in regard to passenger comfort.
</font>
One window, whether you think so or not, makes all the difference in the world in regard to passenger comfort.
</font>
Oct 28, 2001, 12:37 pm
#40
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Dallas
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Posts: 4,092
jAAck,
Having the window shade cracked, even "a bit", illuminates the entire cabin-- I know from personal experience. After doing this myself on one of my first long-haul F class flights and being surprised at the impact on the cabin (and immediately noticing a couple of passengers starting to wake up because of the lighting). I, too, like to occasionally look outside and see natural light-- when I feel the urge I walk back to the galley to avoid inconveniencing the other pax.
The equivalent examples that you cite have rarely or never happened on the 40+ long-haul F class flights I've experienced on CX, QF, BA, SQ or OZ in the last two years:
incessant talkers who never sleep (once, for half the flight);
FAs gabbing in the galleys (never, F class galleys are frequently placarded to remind the FAs to keep their voices low);
crying babies (never);
toddlers roaming the cabin (never);
occasional knock in the shoulder or leg by a passing cart (never).
There is a significant difference in the inflight experience between J and F class on these long-haul services and that's why people typically pay a premium of several thousand $ over J for their tickets.
Maybe this is yet another reason to steer clear of AA int'l F class flights.
Having the window shade cracked, even "a bit", illuminates the entire cabin-- I know from personal experience. After doing this myself on one of my first long-haul F class flights and being surprised at the impact on the cabin (and immediately noticing a couple of passengers starting to wake up because of the lighting). I, too, like to occasionally look outside and see natural light-- when I feel the urge I walk back to the galley to avoid inconveniencing the other pax.
The equivalent examples that you cite have rarely or never happened on the 40+ long-haul F class flights I've experienced on CX, QF, BA, SQ or OZ in the last two years:
incessant talkers who never sleep (once, for half the flight);
FAs gabbing in the galleys (never, F class galleys are frequently placarded to remind the FAs to keep their voices low);
crying babies (never);
toddlers roaming the cabin (never);
occasional knock in the shoulder or leg by a passing cart (never).
There is a significant difference in the inflight experience between J and F class on these long-haul services and that's why people typically pay a premium of several thousand $ over J for their tickets.
Maybe this is yet another reason to steer clear of AA int'l F class flights.
Oct 28, 2001, 1:10 pm
#41
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AAFA:
There is nothing more annoying than the lone selfish flyer who must have their shade open and disturb 50 other people in the business class cabin of a 777, or 100 something people in coach.
It is true that you don't find these people in first class.
You don't think you are annoying anyone, but you are wrong. The window shade, when open, makes a broad swath of light throughout the cabin that usually shines obnoxiously on 15 peoples faces, and annoys everyone else, as they are trying to sleep or rest. These people wake up and they come and complain non-stop to the flight attendants.
One window, whether you think so or not, makes all the difference in the world in regard to passenger comfort.
As a travelling passenger, and as a crewmember, I despise those who feel the need to be so selfish.
Why don't you stop whining about your rights and think about other people around you whose sleep time you are ruining? Many of these people are catching Z's so they can conduct business the minute they get there.</font>
There is nothing more annoying than the lone selfish flyer who must have their shade open and disturb 50 other people in the business class cabin of a 777, or 100 something people in coach.
It is true that you don't find these people in first class.
You don't think you are annoying anyone, but you are wrong. The window shade, when open, makes a broad swath of light throughout the cabin that usually shines obnoxiously on 15 peoples faces, and annoys everyone else, as they are trying to sleep or rest. These people wake up and they come and complain non-stop to the flight attendants.
One window, whether you think so or not, makes all the difference in the world in regard to passenger comfort.
As a travelling passenger, and as a crewmember, I despise those who feel the need to be so selfish.
Why don't you stop whining about your rights and think about other people around you whose sleep time you are ruining? Many of these people are catching Z's so they can conduct business the minute they get there.</font>
If you want it to be dark, close your eyes. Ta-da! Wow, it's suddenly dark! Amazing! If you're not sleepy, but you want to try to get to sleep anyway, put on the eyeshades. I am not going to let your insomnia become my problem.
Consider this -- if the window shade is closed, I can't see through it. No natural light comes through. I sure would like to know how I'm being "selfish" and "whining" when I have no alternative, unlike those who want it dark. I can't close my eyes and get natural light. I can't close my eyes and see the landscape, ocean or clouds below.
Oct 28, 2001, 2:15 pm
#42
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 740
I find the obsession with "natural light" funny. I am sure the light at 35,000 feet is different from what we get at sea-level after it has travelled though the atmosphere. The natural light is in fact more harmful since metal would absorbs a bit of the harmful cosmic radiation vs the plastic windows.
Most people are trying to kill 10-15 hours and the best way to do that is to get some sleep. Needing light is one thing (and that is why you have overhead or snake lights); requiring natural light is being completely selfish IMHO.
Most people are trying to kill 10-15 hours and the best way to do that is to get some sleep. Needing light is one thing (and that is why you have overhead or snake lights); requiring natural light is being completely selfish IMHO.
Oct 28, 2001, 2:29 pm
#43
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I don't like sitting in a coffin or a box when I'm at home, either, so I don't get your point about natural light at 35,000 feet vs. on the ground.
Secondly, I would like an explanation as to why one passenger who wants someone else's window shade to be closed is not being selfish, whereas the passenger next to the window shade who would like it open is being selfish.
Secondly, I would like an explanation as to why one passenger who wants someone else's window shade to be closed is not being selfish, whereas the passenger next to the window shade who would like it open is being selfish.
Oct 28, 2001, 2:50 pm
#44
Join Date: Feb 2001
Programs: UA 1k, AA Plt, MR Lifetime Plat & Amb
Posts: 1,829
I think the airlines have done a great job of managing passenger expectations. I expect to stand in lines, be asked questions in a indigent manner and tone that are of no consequence to matters at hand, be served by people who appear at times to hate the flying public, and sit for hours in a chair built for someone else.
When I don’t encounter these things I have a great flight, when I do encounter these things I have a normal flight.
Everyone who thinks the shade should be closed without the approval of the person sitting there should ask themselves if they want it quiet would they ask the captain to shut down the engines?
I want if dark I cover my eyes, if I want it quiet I use sound suppression. I take responsibility for my own comfort.
Go ahead, keep your shade open, I won’t be bothered. But that’s just my $0.02.
[This message has been edited by Dudemon (edited 10-28-2001).]
When I don’t encounter these things I have a great flight, when I do encounter these things I have a normal flight.
Everyone who thinks the shade should be closed without the approval of the person sitting there should ask themselves if they want it quiet would they ask the captain to shut down the engines?
I want if dark I cover my eyes, if I want it quiet I use sound suppression. I take responsibility for my own comfort.
Go ahead, keep your shade open, I won’t be bothered. But that’s just my $0.02.
[This message has been edited by Dudemon (edited 10-28-2001).]
Oct 28, 2001, 4:02 pm
#45
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 740
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JS:
I don't like sitting in a coffin or a box when I'm at home, either, so I don't get your point about natural light at 35,000 feet vs. on the ground.</font>
I don't like sitting in a coffin or a box when I'm at home, either, so I don't get your point about natural light at 35,000 feet vs. on the ground.</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Secondly, I would like an explanation as to why one passenger who wants someone else's window shade to be closed is not being selfish, whereas the passenger next to the window shade who would like it open is being selfish.</font>
Secondly, I would like an explanation as to why one passenger who wants someone else's window shade to be closed is not being selfish, whereas the passenger next to the window shade who would like it open is being selfish.</font>
There are a lot of places where we do without natural light. I guess you have never been inside a movie theater or have been lucky enough to have a corner office all through out the life, and hence absolutely need natural light when you are flying.
In summary: people who need light can use the artificial light source, if you need natural light, go the galley or whatever where you can open a shade and take a peek without disturbing the entire cabin. But there is no way you can justify disturbing every one else as "them being selfish"; you have a viable alternative source of light, the people catching up with the Zs do not.
BTW, the comments above are for flights more than a couple of hours or red-eyes.