Doppy

I don't think we can fault the FAs for wanting the window shades down. We can fault them for being rude though - that's inappropriate.

In the FAs' defense, you've got one passenger who wants his window shade open, and 10 passengers who want it closed. You can't please everyone all the time.

I know if I were in that situation, I'd rather have one guy upset because his window shade is closed, rather than have 10 people who can't sleep upset at me.

d

lisamcgu

Have you ever been to the beach or do you just spend your time - or should I say, your employer's time - outside taking cigarette breaks.

If you've been to the beach and laid back on the sand, relaxing by closing your eyes, you would know that, even with your eyes closed, you can still tell it is bright out. There is a marked difference between a dark room and a sunny brightness, the reason we have these things called "bedrooms" - they are these enclosed places people go to sleep.

It is hard enough to sleep in a chair on a humming plane, but to not have it as dark as possible, makes it even more difficult. And for the majority who are not able to sleep no matter the surroundings, to have that beam of light suddenly or continually brightening their world, dislodging them from what sketchy sleep they are getting, makes for a terribly discouraging experience.

To not see this, to choose ignorance instead, to not care about disturbing others in such a way, even going beyond and making excuses and debates, is so telling of one's character. Kind of the type who'd do anything for attention, even if it makes them infamous. Just the type you hope isn't on your next flight.

[This message has been edited by lisamcgu (edited 10-31-2001).]

JWH

Let's face it, folks----the MAIN reason the FA's(there for our safety-don't you feel secure?) want the **** shades down is that they are hoping all you miserable passengers will go to sleep and stop annoying them with your insolent requests for service for which you have dearly paid.

[This message has been edited by JWH (edited 10-31-2001).]

jAAck

cobbap, you are correct in your statement and I worded my thoughts poorly. For that I apologize. I shouldn't have said crying babies were disrespectful (I will maintain that the way some parents handle these situations is disrespectul, but as JS correctly said, that's for another thread). What I meant to say was that there are all kinds of factors on board a plane that can disturb or annoy people, and one of those can be a crying baby. I'm not making a judgment on whether or not the baby should be there, but it can be detrimental to a pleasurable flight for some people.

My only point was, and is, that window shades that you don't happen to be sitting next to are just one thing of many that you can't control in your inflight experience. I personally feel that I go out of my way to be considerate and respectful of others, but disagree with lisamcgu that my preference of windowshade position makes me ignorant, of bad character, or seeking attention, as she implies.

I do find it interesting and amusing how heated a discussion can become over such a seemingly benign subject! :-)

JS

Irrelevant comparison. The level of sunlight at the beach is far more than the maximum amount of sunlight that could stream into the cabin (i.e., all window shades open and the sun being orthogonal to the plane's rudder).

The level of sunlight at the beach is orders of magnitude greater than the amount of indirect sunlight coming through a few open window shades.

(BTW I'm salaried, so your jab at my cigarette breaks doesn't hold.)

You said it -- "And for the majority who are not able to sleep no matter the surroundings" Yes, I will do reasonable things to help my fellow passengers, such as closing two of three shades, but I'm not going to sit there in the dark for hours on end, just to make it a little bit easier for others to sleep.

You have one opinion on window shades, and I have another. Character is not an issue here, merely a debate/difference of opinion. I'm not interested in a flame war.

lisamcgu

Nor am I, the reason I didn't cite you directly but was, instead, generalizing. (Look at the post before yours, they thought I was talking to them!) Sheesh ... If the shoe doesn't fit, don't jump to wear it. Anyway, I was only trying for a transition to relate about the type that one hopes not to encounter on their flight.

And, just so you know, I am with you in believing that the view is gorgeous and it is a shame to miss, but I have seen the tired pax, trying so hard to sleep, shaken awake blinking and wondering, when I have even cracked my window, just for a look, and the light, that has beamed in, causes them a major sleep disturbance.

I could pretend not to have noticed just to get my way but, when I fly, I look at it as a team effort. And, while others may think more independently, I choose to move the team forward, not pull it down.

[This message has been edited by lisamcgu (edited 10-31-2001).]

AAFA

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JWH:
[B]Let's face it, folks----the MAIN reason the FA's(there for our safety-don't you feel secure?) want the **** shades down is that they are hoping all you miserable passengers will go to sleep and stop annoying them with your insolent requests for service for which you have dearly paid.

You are incorrect. I could personally care less if you want to hang out and look into the sun until you burn your eye sockets out, when I'm working the flight. The FA's ask to have the shades down to create a darkened cabin for those passengers who need to sleep, to create a comfortable cabin ambience, and because MOST passengers want them down.

We ask those who have the shades open to close them out of courtesy to the passengers who are sleeping and because those who are annoyed by the open shade ask us to have the passenger close the shade, as opposed to having a possible confrontation with the person with the open shade themselves.

As many others have said, if you want to see what's going on outside you can open your shade for random periods and look out, or you can come visit the galley to get a drink and to shoot the breeze with the FA's.



[This message has been edited by AAFA (edited 10-31-2001).]

SuperSlug

You know, when Village Idiot offered up his hot dog cart franchises a few weeks ago, I abstained because, hey, I basically live on the AA board didn't think it would be a sound investment with all the friendly folks around here.

Perhaps I should reconsider?

clacko

i was internet impaired while this had most of the action. i have an opinion. there is scenery to be seen most of the time on most of the flights, even @ nite. i have had great experiences watching the world go by. 1 time i saw the ice fields in greenland- spectacular- i was interfering w/the movie in y- don't i have a right to not watch the movie! there were a # of comments above about the eye shades in f or j . in which the yhe comment seemed to be " i don't like them, so you shut your window" - goodness gracious-. i have seen beautiful sights flying over the ocean w/clouds casting their shadows on the georgeous water. .... to net it out, the window seat owns the window imho...... edit to add- i have no problem closing the window shade when i'm not looking out, if theres a reason to..... the time that open shades are irritating to me is in the morning & evening [low sun] & we are in a holding pattern circling & the crew insists that the shades have to be open.

[This message has been edited by clacko (edited 11-18-2001).]

BlondeBomber

Geez I didn't realize how strongly people felt. I usually lower the blinds on request but do "peek" anyway to see what scenery is there.

I can live with this either way. It is only annoying when sun is just rising or setting and directly impacting my personal video screen.

If this was such a big deal, you would think that they would have
1) invented planes with no windows -- you get to fly in the dark all the time
2) had motorized blinds that the FAs or pilots control for "quiet time".

I think both sides are taking this a bit too seriously but can see both perspectives. Being able to see fantastic landscapes/clouds etc is a definite bonus and attraction of flying and having the window seat.

People who want to sleep have a legitimate gripe but do have the eyeshade option (or any of a number of commercial options--he*l I just pull the blanket right up over my whole head)

I think the biggest problem is the old video screens that are not bright enough to combat ambient light. For that reason alone I would recommend shades be lowered for times when the video is showing.

By the way, should the video also be turned off so there is no light in the cabin?

[This message has been edited by BlondeBomber (edited 11-18-2001).]

jan_az

Actaully you have a great point, the flashing movie that no one is watching is even more annoying than the open window shade, IMO

benoit

If you care at all about other people, close the shade, if you get off on tweaking and enraging them, leave it open. Straightforward.

rxziebel

If you are claustraphobic, enjoy watching scenery or just prefer an open shade and are sitting in the window seat, leave it open. If not, then close the shade. Straightforward!

If someone has the right to bring a screaming baby on the flight and disturb the entire cabin then I have the right to open a windowshade and possibly disturb some others. Either everyone needs to refrain from all disturbing activities, or any activity that is not illegal or dangerous to others is allowed.

Plato90s

<sarcasm>

On this train of thought, are all parents travelling with children just sadists determined to enrage fellow passengers?

And that person with his laptop on, throwing light on an otherwise dark cabin, he's not actually doing work, but is instead seeking to "tweak" fellow passengers.

Let us not forget the passengers who are too big to fit easily within the confines of his seat. A big person in a coach seat obviously gained weight to "tweak and enrage" his fellow passengers.

It's always about doing *something* to other passengers, right?

</sarcasm>

lisamcgu

Unlike others, I agree with you benoit. Planes were designed, IMO, with the appearance of perks for the travelling masses. In reality, though, these perks have major design flaws that differ when being transferred from theory to reality. Reclining seats, self-regulated window shades, letting babies onboard without taking their baby valium or whatever ( ), etc.

I like what one poster wrote about electronic window shades that the FA controlled (with a "viewing" window available in the galley, perhaps).

Stuff like that is what's needed if you are going to try to put together a group of people that will, ultimately, consist of a few who think more of themselves than the group as a whole, using the plane's ill thought out design flaws to justify their selfishness.

[edited to put in a smiley face, in case someone thought I was serious about drugging babies. ]

[This message has been edited by lisamcgu (edited 11-19-2001).]