View Poll Results: My opinion of the announced AA - US merger is:
This is the best of all possible worlds; great idea!
33
3.93%
This portends a stronger airline, with some changes for all
192
22.88%
I am neutral - pros and cons for all
199
23.72%
I think this is a somewhat bad idea with some real challenges
226
26.94%
I am completely opposed to this merger; terrible idea!
189
22.53%
Voters: 839. You may not vote on this poll
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated)
Aug 14, 2013, 1:33 pm
#1861
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Wanting First. Buying First.
Programs: Lifetime Executive Diamond Platinum VIP with Braniff, Eastern, Midway, National & Pan Am
Posts: 17,688
Ignoring the best interests of consumers in order to whore itself out to various interest groups, Big Labor included among them, is what government does.
Aug 14, 2013, 2:01 pm
#1863
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 58,103
^^
Aug 14, 2013, 3:14 pm
#1864
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,448
Aug 14, 2013, 3:21 pm
#1865
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PHL
Posts: 2,842
The damage of consolidation has already been done, the DOJ is finally catching up and US/AA are now taking the hit and potentially the fall.
Aug 14, 2013, 3:28 pm
#1866
Join Date: Aug 2008
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,714
Aug 14, 2013, 3:34 pm
#1867
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Missouri
Programs: AA PLT 2MM, BAEC, SPG, UA, AF
Posts: 84
I'm surprised people think this is just a bump in the road or an effort to get concessions.
In all likelihood, the end result is that, for now, the merger is off.
I was really excited about the network synergies, but I'm glad I probably don't have to worry about US Airways' management and service culture invading AA.
And, on the plus side for US, they don't have to worry about how to train their FA's to do currently unfamiliar tasks, like serving meals and operating IFE.
In all likelihood, the end result is that, for now, the merger is off.
I was really excited about the network synergies, but I'm glad I probably don't have to worry about US Airways' management and service culture invading AA.
And, on the plus side for US, they don't have to worry about how to train their FA's to do currently unfamiliar tasks, like serving meals and operating IFE.
Aug 14, 2013, 3:36 pm
#1868
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego, Ca
Programs: AA 2MM LT PLT; AS MVP Gold75k; HHonors Diamond; IHG PLT
Posts: 3,529
From http://www.flyertalk.com/story/ameri...of-merger.html, quoting the conference call:
In the U.S. only a judge can stop a merger, said Rich Parker, the attorney representing US Airways. Its only happened once in the last eight years. So for the lawyers out there: DOJ choice to file a civil case rather than an injunction, comment mean anything?
Calling it a kitchen-sink complaint, Sims insists that the 56-page complaint filed by the Justice Department does not present an accurate or compelling picture of the outlook of the merger. If they want to convince the court that the sky is falling, they will need to show that there is more meat.
Although not a lawyer, it does indeed appear that some of the comments are FAR from reality.
While I don't like the idea of a $40 fee to redeem awards, when did the DOJ get in the business of deciding the appropriateness of airline fees; why not NK's fees for carry on baggage? WN's refusal to offer same day standbys?
In the U.S. only a judge can stop a merger, said Rich Parker, the attorney representing US Airways. Its only happened once in the last eight years. So for the lawyers out there: DOJ choice to file a civil case rather than an injunction, comment mean anything?
Calling it a kitchen-sink complaint, Sims insists that the 56-page complaint filed by the Justice Department does not present an accurate or compelling picture of the outlook of the merger. If they want to convince the court that the sky is falling, they will need to show that there is more meat.
Although not a lawyer, it does indeed appear that some of the comments are FAR from reality.
While I don't like the idea of a $40 fee to redeem awards, when did the DOJ get in the business of deciding the appropriateness of airline fees; why not NK's fees for carry on baggage? WN's refusal to offer same day standbys?
Aug 14, 2013, 3:56 pm
#1869
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere I need to be.
Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 16,046
(Only domestic banking-many US branches are not accessible internationally without paying fees unless you have Premier/Preferred Client status. Some branches can only be found in certain locations, too, in major cities.)
Aug 14, 2013, 3:56 pm
#1870
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: LAX
Programs: AA EXP, Starwood Gold
Posts: 26
The DOJ is not objecting to the end (award redemption fees for AA customers), but the means to achieving that end (reducing the competitiveness of the market through a merger).
Aug 14, 2013, 3:58 pm
#1871
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SJC/SFO & ORD
Programs: LT Gold/BA Executive Club/AS MP/Marriott
Posts: 1,646
Their hedges are running out as well. US doesn't even have a fuel hedging program.
Also, you only named 1 out of how many carriers?
These were only part of the complaints. There are a lot of other items the DOJ has bentioned (such as the Herfindahl-Hirschman Index, etc.).
All-in-all, I don't see how Parker & Co. will be able to squirm their way out of this one.
Also, if Parker & Co. are going to be "the godsend for AA", how come Parker & Co. have been rejected twice already?
Personally, I would like to see the DOJ prevail. ^
Also, you only named 1 out of how many carriers?
From http://www.flyertalk.com/story/ameri...of-merger.html, quoting the conference call:
In the U.S. only a judge can stop a merger, said Rich Parker, the attorney representing US Airways. Its only happened once in the last eight years. So for the lawyers out there: DOJ choice to file a civil case rather than an injunction, comment mean anything?
Calling it a kitchen-sink complaint, Sims insists that the 56-page complaint filed by the Justice Department does not present an accurate or compelling picture of the outlook of the merger. If they want to convince the court that the sky is falling, they will need to show that there is more meat.
Although not a lawyer, it does indeed appear that some of the comments are FAR from reality.
While I don't like the idea of a $40 fee to redeem awards, when did the DOJ get in the business of deciding the appropriateness of airline fees; why not NK's fees for carry on baggage? WN's refusal to offer same day standbys?
In the U.S. only a judge can stop a merger, said Rich Parker, the attorney representing US Airways. Its only happened once in the last eight years. So for the lawyers out there: DOJ choice to file a civil case rather than an injunction, comment mean anything?
Calling it a kitchen-sink complaint, Sims insists that the 56-page complaint filed by the Justice Department does not present an accurate or compelling picture of the outlook of the merger. If they want to convince the court that the sky is falling, they will need to show that there is more meat.
Although not a lawyer, it does indeed appear that some of the comments are FAR from reality.
While I don't like the idea of a $40 fee to redeem awards, when did the DOJ get in the business of deciding the appropriateness of airline fees; why not NK's fees for carry on baggage? WN's refusal to offer same day standbys?
All-in-all, I don't see how Parker & Co. will be able to squirm their way out of this one.
Also, if Parker & Co. are going to be "the godsend for AA", how come Parker & Co. have been rejected twice already?
Personally, I would like to see the DOJ prevail. ^
Aug 14, 2013, 4:00 pm
#1872
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AA EXP; 1W Emerald; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold; UA dirt
Posts: 7,880
Standard request for relief for violations of the Clayton Act is an injunction which enjoins the entities from merging/consolidating.
What the counsel for the airlines said was that DOJ filed the suit to request that the judge enjoin the airlines from carrying out their merger. This is done through the issuance of an injunction. The judge is the only one who can issue that injunction. The merger counsel were seeking to dispel the idea that the DOJ stopped the merger. They did not; but what they did was set the process in motion for the merger to be stopped by the judiciary.
We'll have to wait for the merits of the case to be brought to air - but some of the emails dug up do not paint US in a favorable light (in terms of being consumer friendly). Emailing the CEO of a competing airline regarding pricing (as D. Parker appears to have done) may have been downright illegal.
Anyhow....
Say hello to the seals down at the Children's pool.
What the counsel for the airlines said was that DOJ filed the suit to request that the judge enjoin the airlines from carrying out their merger. This is done through the issuance of an injunction. The judge is the only one who can issue that injunction. The merger counsel were seeking to dispel the idea that the DOJ stopped the merger. They did not; but what they did was set the process in motion for the merger to be stopped by the judiciary.
We'll have to wait for the merits of the case to be brought to air - but some of the emails dug up do not paint US in a favorable light (in terms of being consumer friendly). Emailing the CEO of a competing airline regarding pricing (as D. Parker appears to have done) may have been downright illegal.
Anyhow....
Say hello to the seals down at the Children's pool.
Aug 14, 2013, 4:04 pm
#1873
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: AUS / DXB
Programs: BA Silver | AA LT Gold | EY Silver | Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 1,838
From the AA/US defense:
Please excuse me while I take the next ten minutes to laugh my ... off. 'Procompetitive'? Really?
Please tell me you have a stronger defense than this, and the tired old 'more consumer choice' line, when consumers already have the choice of an entire AA and US network which will likely be cut upon merger completion.
Blocking this procompetitive merger will deny customers access to a broader airline network that gives them more choices.
Please tell me you have a stronger defense than this, and the tired old 'more consumer choice' line, when consumers already have the choice of an entire AA and US network which will likely be cut upon merger completion.
Aug 14, 2013, 4:09 pm
#1874
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere I need to be.
Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 16,046
From the AA/US defense:
Please excuse me while I take the next ten minutes to laugh my ... off. 'Procompetitive'? Really?
Please tell me you have a stronger defense than this, and the tired old 'more consumer choice' line, when consumers already have the choice of an entire AA and US network which will likely be cut upon merger completion.
Please excuse me while I take the next ten minutes to laugh my ... off. 'Procompetitive'? Really?
Please tell me you have a stronger defense than this, and the tired old 'more consumer choice' line, when consumers already have the choice of an entire AA and US network which will likely be cut upon merger completion.
Aug 14, 2013, 4:21 pm
#1875
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
The DOJ is in the business to decide whether the merger is in violation of specific laws that allow the functioning of a free market. Coordinated fee increases is an index of industry collusion; the ability of merger partners to raise $280m/year in fees they could not before the merger is an index of increase in market power. Both indicate a market that is no longer free, but increasingly oligopolistic.