jordyn

That language does not exist on AA's website, so no they do not clearly disclose that at all. Sure, a "special limitation" could mean anything, so it's possible that's what AA means by the language in question. If that's what they mean, they should just say it, though.

This is mostly a distinction without a difference. AA treats award availability on these dates dramatically differently than on other dates, apparently. Maybe it's a reasonable business practice. I don't think anyone here is currently arguing for them to do anything more than be up-front about it, rather than trying to have it both ways: "no blackout dates" but also "we don't release any availability on certain dates if it's not economical to do so".

janetdoe

No. Embargo means they will never provide seats. Capacity control means the may provide seats if and when they have enough capacity.

What else would you think that "subject to special limitations on seating availability" means?

EsquireFlyer

Please show us where the original website language says that embargoes/blackouts apply only to partners. The word "partner" does not even appear in the quoted language.

It says that embargoes apply on certain participant airlines. So, to apply to AA, AA does not have to be "one if its partners." AA just has to be a "participant airline" in the AAdvantage program. Which it is.

The website does not say "special limitations on seating availability on American Airlines only and travel embargo dates on partner airlines only," which is what you are trying to interpret it as saying.

iahphx

I think that's a reasonable way of looking at it.

I don't think anyone seriously questions AA's right to further restrict award availability during the Holiday period if it wants to. Just like no one should question their customers' right to be annoyed by this practice and, perhaps, change their travel preferences accordingly.

I do think AA should be candid about the restrictions -- given how they will impact nearly every customer looking for domestic award seats during the Holidays. The following disclaimer seems about right to me: "Due to heavy demand during the Thanksgiving and Chistmas holiday seasons, you may find it more difficult to find domestic Economy MileSaver award seats during this travel period. Currently, we expect these peak travel days to be November 14-26, 2012, and December x, y and z, 2012 and January a-b, 2013. You may find it easier to obtain MileSaver award seats on other travel dates. If your travel plans are not sufficiently flexible, you can still take advantage of our Economy AAnytime award seats on most American Airlines flights."

mingw

AA certainly has right to have embargo dates. but they don't have any for 2011 or 2012. this is the list of embargo dates on participant airlines, japan airlines is the only one has embargo dates:

https://www.aa.com/i18n/urls/embargodates.jsp

JY1024

Hi everyone,
This topic has been, and continues to be, a contentious issue on the forum.

From the "preamble" of the FlyerTalk Rules and Guidelines (http://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php):

Quote:

Welcome to FlyerTalk.

We want you to get the most from FlyerTalk. While we make every effort to ensure these forums are enjoyable and valuable, the ultimate responsibility rests with those who contribute. As with any community, FlyerTalk's standard of living depends on the goodwill and consideration of its citizens.

The rules are based on respect and good manners. FlyerTalk is a moderated board. Posts that don't comply with our rules will be removed, and members who violate the rules may be suspended or have their memberships revoked. Use common sense and you'll feel right at home. FlyerTalk Chat is subject to the same rules as the FlyerTalk forums.

(underlining is mine)

Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinions; however, let's try to keep the discussion civil. (The rhetoric is seems to be heating up...perhaps we can all take a deep breath and try to take things down a notch.)

Remember that you can always chose to not respond to a thread/post or to place a user on your ignore list. Thanks to everyone in advance for their help and cooperation.

Hope everybody has happy travels this year! /Moderator

Ready2Go

This isn't really "weird." It reflects demand. International travel falls off right around the holidays, while domestic travel picks up. FWIW, revenue tickets go the same way; they're always available at some price (as are award tickets), but domestic fares go up while international ones go down. A couple of years ago I found that it was literally cheaper to get to Boston for Christmas by flying LAX-BOS-LHR-LAX, rather than buying a simple round trip to BOS.

I share others' concern about reduced award availability in general, but I don't agree that availability around the holidays is a unique or separate issue.

EsquireFlyer

AA doesn't have to give notice of new embargo dates, either. The top of the page you quoted says, "Travel Embargo Dates are subject to change at any time without notice."

But the Japan Air embargo dates you quoted actually provide helpful illustration of the difference between "embargo dates" and what AA is doing (capacity controls). Other posters have stated that award availability did show up last Christmas season, but closer to the actual travel dates, and not 330 days out. If it were a true "embargo," like JAL's, the awards would never be available, regardless of how full or empty the planes were on the embargo dates.

pvtwong

it's their house, it's their rules. You play by their rules if you want those seats. they can do what they think is right for them.

Happy

Can we not to repeat the same discussion from 2011?

From what I see based on what I need, AA has dramatically changed its policy in releasing award seats - this is not limited to the holiday season domestic coach saaver seats.

Take a look of MIA-LIM between January to June. There are fewer than 10 Saaver 15K seats in the whole 6 months period. There are plenty of Business class 30K seats and of course the AAnytime coach 30K and 35K after June 15? (Peak).

Basically AA has employed a much more aggressive yield management practice on many routes, especially on routes where coach Saaver is in high demand and there is no lack of pay tickets.

Would I blame AA on that, and claim AAdvantage program is now less value? Hell No!

Try to take a look at CO or UA programs - UA wants 150K one-way LAX-HKG in its Business Class for January and February, while I can easily book an AA 55K route through NRT and then change to CX nonstop for no charge, versus CO wants $150 change fee for each change... Oh, even CO has availability on partners, it is 60K and all flights go thru ICN or PEK or NRT or LHR or MUC or even one that is so bizarre - VS going thru SYD (in coach)... 0 availability on CO's own metal via EWR, not even in coach...

Go with CO/UA program if you feel AA is no good for your domestic coach travel. Others may find AA is excellent in both domestic and int'l premium cabins. Take what suits you best instead of complaining about the program that does not work for you is much less value - it can be much more value to others on the other side of the coin. Hence this kind of discussion is so useless.

Each program has its strength and weakness - deal with it and cherry pick each program's best parts, have miles across programs and you would be better off.

gemac

While you state this as fact, I strongly suspect that it it just your opinion, without any factual underpinning at all. That is just my opinion, but I clearly lable it as such, and don't state it as an immutable fact.

AA, like all airlines, runs a program that determines the number of seats that they are willing to release as MileSAAver awards. Input for that program includes statistics about the percentage of capacity sold on that route on that date in the past, as well as time until flight and seats available on the flight today, and probably other factors that we don't suspect. We all know that AA has reduced capacity in the last couple of years, resulting in high load percentages. Why would you not expect that to result in fewer award seats, especially when the flights first come on the schedules?

clacko

does anyone think aa is not allowing anytime awards that they should be or limiting them in a new way?

Science Goy

2 pax flying HNL-LAX on Dec. 21. Only the 8am flight was available two months beforehand (requiring them to head to the airport at 5am, so this falls under my definition of "non-optimal"). Two days before departure MileSAAver seats opened up on all HNL-LAX flights that day.

3 pax on ZIH-DFW, Dec. 31. Only AAnytime awards available. A few days before departure, MileSAAver J tickets opened up.

2 pax LAX-HNL, Jan. 3. Plenty of MileSAAver availability 2 months out.

iahphx

You can certainly make a plausible argument that int'l demand is different from domestic demand, but I can think of no plausible business justification for "giving away" a long haul domestic saver seat during a busy travel period to a connecting int'l traveller (at off peak rates no less!), but being unwilling to make such a seat available for a domestic traveller.

For instance, the program/script/whatever-you-want-to-call-it prevents a passenger from booking a 22,500 Saver award seat from HNL-LAX during the Holiday period. But AA will give that seat to someone continuing on to LHR -- and only charge them 20,000 for the whole trip! I don't care what type of revenue management strategy you're deploying, this makes no business sense.

Aw, happy, you're "muddling" things here. I have no doubt that the "Holiday embargo" (or whatever you want to call these defacto domestic blackout days) was not a decision concocted in a vacuum. No doubt the Revenue Management folks sat down and looked at what they needed to do to limit revenue loss from "excessive" frequent flyer redemptions. This Holiday thing was only ONE strategy they've apparently deployed. As many have reported, in many markets, fewer award seats seem to be available.

But the Holiday period is the only time when you have certain fixed days where basically nothing is available for redemption for a broad array of city pairs (basically all domestic Saver seats). It's its own animal -- and its own issue. And if you want to travel at Thanksgiving or Xmas on an AA award ticket, you should definitely be aware of this unique problem.

Leavng aside the premium class bookings (they have not been impacted by the embargo), your experience is certainly interesting. HNL-LAX was definitely embargoed on those dates for many months (end of schedule through at least September). Worse, award availability on that route can often be horrible: I happened to look at that route in both mid-November and early December and saw no Saver availability for ANY near-term travel date (even "boring" non-embargoed days like early December). But the inability to book award travel and high fares seems to have taken its toll on load factor; I was amazed to see non-full flights on that route at Xmas time. From what you report, it sounds like award seats were ultimately made available on these non-full flights.

This confirms that AA does eventually go route-by-route and will allocate seats if space is available. It's obviously a longshot, but if you have no firm travel plans, you can search. It will be very helpful if folks report their finds this year when they occur.

jordyn

I honestly have no idea. It doesn't mean anything in particular to me. "Special limitations" seems to have a meaning in the law, but it seems to be associated with quite specific and well-defined things that are clearly enumerated. In common english, it doesn't seem to be used that much, so I'm not clear what particular meaning you'd derive from that phrase.