AMR tumbles more than 10% after pilot contract proposal
Nov 15, 2011, 7:49 pm
#31
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Nov 15, 2011, 8:30 pm
#32
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The current pilot contract scope clause would force AA to use AA mainline pilots to staff that new low-cost sub. Without a Ch 11 filing (and contract abrogation), that idea wouldn't save AA any money.
Nov 15, 2011, 9:14 pm
#33
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You're actually wrong here. AA was seriously looking at a low-cost operation on the West Coast back in the early 90's. However, AA had mathematicians who actually ran simulations and they could never make it work financially.
Nov 15, 2011, 9:34 pm
#34
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In regard to understanding how the airline business exists today, the AA pilots are just not very bright. I am always amazed at how stupid technical people in general can be about such things.
Nov 15, 2011, 10:42 pm
#35
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see next post
Last edited by skylady; Nov 15, 2011 at 10:50 pm
Nov 15, 2011, 10:50 pm
#36
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Star-Telegram: Pilots union rejects American Airlines' contract proposals
After taking a day to consider comprehensive contract proposals from American Airlines, leaders of the airline's pilots union said Tuesday night that there is no deal and that the two sides need to keep talking.
The Allied Pilots Association board voted 17-1 to send a letter to American CEO Gerard Arpey saying that they are willing to consider creative solutions to the airline's financial problems but that its current proposals are not acceptable.
"Although management's most recent proposal does not sufficiently address our pilots' most critical negotiating priorities, we are nevertheless committed to reaching a mutually beneficial agreement through good-faith bargaining at the earliest opportunity," the union's letter said.
The Allied Pilots Association board voted 17-1 to send a letter to American CEO Gerard Arpey saying that they are willing to consider creative solutions to the airline's financial problems but that its current proposals are not acceptable.
"Although management's most recent proposal does not sufficiently address our pilots' most critical negotiating priorities, we are nevertheless committed to reaching a mutually beneficial agreement through good-faith bargaining at the earliest opportunity," the union's letter said.
Last edited by dstan; Nov 16, 2011 at 2:06 pm Reason: please avoid full reposting of copyrighted material
Nov 15, 2011, 11:15 pm
#37
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I have been praying for an AA bankruptcy. I made a huge dent on my lifetime miles on UA when it went through BK. I was flying PHL-ORD-GRU-GIG-GRU-ORD-PHL for $300 AI. I flew 175K EQMs for less than $2K. Boy......those where the good old days.
I gurantee you if AA goes through BK you will see fares for ~$300 RT for routes like JFK-LAX-NRT-LAX-JFK. Talk bout making EXP in a year for less than $1,500. I hope the pilots commit suicide and drag AA to BK......
I gurantee you if AA goes through BK you will see fares for ~$300 RT for routes like JFK-LAX-NRT-LAX-JFK. Talk bout making EXP in a year for less than $1,500. I hope the pilots commit suicide and drag AA to BK......
Nov 16, 2011, 5:40 am
#38
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I would agree. The industry has become much more disciplined and the days of airlines doing fire fare sales just to generate some cash are over with. Now that is not to say that another carrier smelling blood in the water would not attact some of AA's lucrative routes with uber low fares. But IMHO were are far from that situation.
Nov 16, 2011, 7:00 am
#39
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Labor issues are highly correlated to unions. We need a free market. Let the market set the price for the skill sets employees bring to the job. Pay for performance. Mobilize the work force. If AA is underpaying and not providing good benefits then the pilots/FA/mechanics,etc can go work at UA or who ever is providing a better pay package. This is how most of the private sector works.
Nov 16, 2011, 7:14 am
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Nov 16, 2011, 10:26 am
#41
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Nov 16, 2011, 10:59 am
#42
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2-The "bonuses" (sans Carty and his associates) were approved by the unions.
Labor issues are highly correlated to unions. We need a free market. Let the market set the price for the skill sets employees bring to the job. Pay for performance. Mobilize the work force. If AA is underpaying and not providing good benefits then the pilots/FA/mechanics,etc can go work at UA or who ever is providing a better pay package. This is how most of the private sector works.
Nov 16, 2011, 11:12 am
#43
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It is the only way to gain a chance of consensus with the unions, and beside potentially helping AA financially, it would also be a potentially helpful bargaining chip in the bargaining process...
Nov 16, 2011, 12:47 pm
#44
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I have agreed with you for some time on this issue, but I am beginning to reverse my position. I think we might be at a point where management could give themselves and board members voluntary paycuts.
It is the only way to gain a chance of consensus with the unions, and beside potentially helping AA financially, it would also be a potentially helpful bargaining chip in the bargaining process...
It is the only way to gain a chance of consensus with the unions, and beside potentially helping AA financially, it would also be a potentially helpful bargaining chip in the bargaining process...
In Chapter 11, management may be losers too. I think there would be a very good chance that Doug Parker and group will put an offer to buy AA out of bankruptcy. And the decision is up to the creditors not management. Management can put in their two cents like DL did but in the end the creditors vote on who gets control of the reorganized enterprise.
Nov 16, 2011, 1:20 pm
#45
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In light of the losses that AA has incurred, yes I think management should be taking pay cuts. It would also be a way to smooth ruffled feathers at the pilots union.
In Chapter 11, management may be losers too. I think there would be a very good chance that Doug Parker and group will put an offer to buy AA out of bankruptcy. And the decision is up to the creditors not management. Management can put in their two cents like DL did but in the end the creditors vote on who gets control of the reorganized enterprise.
In Chapter 11, management may be losers too. I think there would be a very good chance that Doug Parker and group will put an offer to buy AA out of bankruptcy. And the decision is up to the creditors not management. Management can put in their two cents like DL did but in the end the creditors vote on who gets control of the reorganized enterprise.