channa

There's only a tiny collection of SFOers going to IAH in the first place. UA only runs it for connections. WN only has two (2) per day to HOU out of OAK.

tusphotog

But you can fly SFO-PHX nonstop during the four weeks of spring training! Thanks so much Alaska!

fly18725

Why would AS want to keep people outside of the west coast loyal?

Madone59

I am sure this isn't the article you are referring to but lists Charlotte's "Local traffic" as only 21% of their airports volume.

As much as it makes sense, and it does, Charlotte is the 17th largest city in the country, and I am having a hard time keeping 75K, so AS better show up

obnoxoid

I'm a DC-centric AS loyalist who flies the ex-WAS transcons a lot (mainly DCA-SEA/PDX/LAX/SFO) and fly a decent amount of BA. The DCA transcon options keep me hooked, and while I'm definitely not the main AS target, I'd like to think that people like me floating about can't hurt, particularly with the DCA premiums AS can charge.

There hasn't really been a product available that's nice enough to have the schlep out to IAD be worth anything for me. My first experience of VX F (IAD-LAX) in 2011 was pretty horrible and actually soured me off the product, though I have done IAD-SFO in F and did enjoy it this year. However, at this point if Mint did show up I would give it some serious, serious thought--especially after a second showing of cereal in AS transcon F when I know that meal used to be from the far more substantial lunch/dinner menu.

There are probably at least a few other people like me who appreciate the ex-DCA options on AS but are definitely looking around a bit. I must say that DL's C fares on DCA-LAX have been tempting lately.

BearX220

Why wouldn't AS want to cultivate trips originating outside the west coast? From the looks of it, they're in no shape to "fire" customers at the moment. We went through all that "time to fire customers who don't represent enough value" stuff on the United board, and look what shape UA is in today.

eponymous_coward

I guess the argument is "forget about expanding in California markets and hand them to B6 when they win the VX auction, and shoot for the vast market of FlyerTalkers who aren't based in AS core markets and like using the AS piggy bank for miles. Just concentrate on SEA and beg for favors from AA with your cap in your hand. It's not like you have a second airline there and you're kind of boxed in on markets".

Sounds like a winner to me. I'm sure Wall Street would LOVE that story, even if it means no more 6% growth year over year.

In the end they paid a lot of money (maybe even winner's curse levels) for a shot at competing in CA. So far the execution's lacking, and welcome to the big leagues, AS.

fly18725

It seems that focusing on the customers who get the greatest utility from your product is a good way to build loyalty and position yourself for higher yields.

Alaska has also spoken on this topic and was clear that they want to focus on people who actually step on their airplanes.

milypan

WN already offers half those things to everyone, and potential upgrades are not a big draw on 1-hour flights. My sense is that WN also offers significantly higher frequencies, not to mention an actual network outside the state. Making 75K on intra-CA flights requires you to average a flight every 4 days within CA, while not flying much outside CA (where the network is weak). There may be a few people with those travel patterns, but I wouldn't build an airline around them.

Boy, yes, those AA-codeshares sure are an attractive option.





I agree that it's one of the best for RDMs and said as much earlier. But I doubt that's a big draw for most people. Every other elite I know IRL cares much more about the elite benefits than earning RDMs (and frankly, if you want RDMs, credit cards are a more productive avenue than flying). Casual flyers also don't care about RDMs because they rarely accumulate enough miles on one airline to cash in anything of great value.

CLT is the #26 market out of the SF Bay Area, if you want actual data.

HOU is the #14 market out of the SF Bay Area. This is for origin-destination pairs; we're not talking about connections.

I'm not claiming HOU is a top 10 market. It's not (though PHX, also unserved, is). But AS serves #46 (TUS), #38 (IND), #33 (ABQ), #31 (MCI), #29 (BNA), #28 (RDU), #24 (MSY), #21 (MCO), #20 (MSP), and #18 (AUS). None of these are in CA or the PNW. In raw numbers, HOU has 4x the traffic of IND, and PHX has 10x the traffic of TUS. There are big holes in the AS network coming from CA right now.

bigbirdwithsilverwings

.

Interesting thread. I think ALK is a good airline "buy" at this price point---if there is such a thing as a good airline stock--I bought some yesterday...

sltlyamusd

agree. Market overreaction and ALK will recover. Ops are already much improved at QX and the VX integration is moving along. I do think AS needs to do more to attract high yield pax to combat rising costs associated with higher wages and reduced aircraft utilization.

tphuang

btw, I do agree with you here and what you posted in the other thread. AS management made a decision to be less cautious. I think they overpaid for what is essentially 7 gates in SFO and 4 gates in LAX. But they built a huge war chest with prudent actions for years, there is nothing wrong with taking a risk. They are still in good financial position and need to plow ahead. They can't look backward at this point.

chrisl137

I can get nonstops from BUR to SJC and PDX at convenient times and prices.
I like the E175 better than the 737 - no middle seats, underseat storage isn't reduced at the aisle seats.
No need to check in at T-24:00:00.

spongenotbob

/delete

BearX220

Of course, but take a 50-flight-per-year customer in, say, PHX with a nationwide trip agenda. Given a choice between having that customer fly 20/50 flights on AS or 50/50 on AA, which would AS prefer? Do they want a piece of that customer or not?

Again, how do these purity filters and base-shaving strategies help support the company? Especially when it's now ballooned into a 230-aircraft deal with no fortress market, embattled even on home ground (PNW) and in deep trouble in California.

They need more than a cohort of King / Snohomish / Pierce fans, people who don't travel to DL or AA destinations, to make that go.