Air New Zealand [Premium Economy and Business Class fares]
Feb 18, 2019, 9:45 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 2
Air New Zealand [Premium Economy and Business Class fares]
Why is it Air New Zealand Premuim Economy and Business Class flights are so over priced you get as good as service and cheaper prices from the Asian Carriers . How do people rate the BC service my last two flights I found weren't spectacular at all .
Feb 18, 2019, 10:05 pm
#2
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: New Zealand (most of the time)
Programs: Air NZ Elite *G, Honors Gold, IHG Platinum Elite
Posts: 6,150
What determines "overpriced" is really each person's perceived value.
Considering aircraft seats really follow a supply and demand economic principle and Air NZ have no trouble filling both Business Premier and Premium Economy cabins with paying passengers, basic economics says they're not overpriced.
So no NZ aren't cheap . But why do they need to be? You could easily turn your argument around and ask why the Chinese carriers need to literally give seats away.
Considering aircraft seats really follow a supply and demand economic principle and Air NZ have no trouble filling both Business Premier and Premium Economy cabins with paying passengers, basic economics says they're not overpriced.
So no NZ aren't cheap . But why do they need to be? You could easily turn your argument around and ask why the Chinese carriers need to literally give seats away.
Feb 18, 2019, 10:27 pm
#3
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: BNE
Programs: NZ*G, QF Bronze, VA Red
Posts: 563
I would actually challenge that they are overpriced. From AKL, yes, maybe. But that's because to those destinations there's really no competition. Can you really compare a non-stop to LAX on NZ vs a stopover in SIN on SQ, adding hours to the journey?
For routes where they compete heavily, NZ pricing is comparable to the competition. J r/t from BNE/SYD/MEL to LAX can be had for less than $6k - rarely can you get an SQ or UA fare for that!
For routes where they compete heavily, NZ pricing is comparable to the competition. J r/t from BNE/SYD/MEL to LAX can be had for less than $6k - rarely can you get an SQ or UA fare for that!
Feb 19, 2019, 12:51 am
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 2
What determines "overpriced" is really each person's perceived value.
Considering aircraft seats really follow a supply and demand economic principle and Air NZ have no trouble filling both Business Premier and Premium Economy cabins with paying passengers, basic economics says they're not overpriced.
So no NZ aren't cheap . But why do they need to be? You could easily turn your argument around and ask why the Chinese carriers need to literally give seats away.
Considering aircraft seats really follow a supply and demand economic principle and Air NZ have no trouble filling both Business Premier and Premium Economy cabins with paying passengers, basic economics says they're not overpriced.
So no NZ aren't cheap . But why do they need to be? You could easily turn your argument around and ask why the Chinese carriers need to literally give seats away.
Last edited by NewbieRunner; Feb 19, 2019 at 3:46 am Reason: Merge two consecutive posts by same member
Feb 19, 2019, 3:52 am
#7
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NZ
Programs: NZ Gold, BA Gold, QF Silver, IHG Platinum Elite Ambassador, Accor Diamond
Posts: 1,048
and choice depends on where you want to go, at best there might be one alternative direct from NZ, there may be a few more if you want to fly via Australia (not a bad idea to Asia or Europe, but a significant time penalty when heading to the Americas). FWIW I think NZ in premium economy has one of the most generous seat pitches and its seats are highly competitive to most other PE, and the soft product is one of the best. I'd pick NZ in PE over CX and SQ, and marginally over QF because of seating comfort. BP product is dated, but again it depends on what people value. I've flown umpteen flights on NZ, QF, CX, SQ, BA, QR, JL, AY, TG in the last two years, and NZ clearly doesn't have the best hard product (QR Suites are on another level), but it is consistent and the soft product is up there. Again, each to their own. The premium end of the airline market is quite diverse, ranging from those who prioritise schedules and time over price vs. those who are keen to avoid flying economy, and willing to take a schedule/time/transit penalty of many hours to do so, and to fly on airlines that don't fit frequent flyer programmes or which have a poorer reputation.
Feb 19, 2019, 10:43 am
#8
Join Date: Feb 2007
Programs: NZ Koru
Posts: 6,415
As others have said, its simple supply and demand if people were not paying the high prices then we would probably see an price reduction. NZ does very well to fill its cabins above 80% load factor on pretty much every service.
Ive at times paid extra to go on NZ simply for the time convenience and direct flight, the. Other times have chosen cheaper options when time doesnt matter.
Ive at times paid extra to go on NZ simply for the time convenience and direct flight, the. Other times have chosen cheaper options when time doesnt matter.
Feb 19, 2019, 11:21 am
#9
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: New Zealand (when I'm home!)
Programs: Air NZ Elite
Posts: 1,218
I have also never heard of anyone claiming the Qantas in J longhaul has better service than Air NZ. TT its up for debate. Not even a question that it beats Fiji so that just makes me think you are trolling.
I mean, you do not like Air NZ. I get that. But you have listed some of the words top rated airlines there. Comparing Air NZ to Singapore? Yeah sure Singapore, fighting it out with airlines like Qatar, is going to beat Air NZ.
But why don't you go fly the European airlines, or the lower cost Middle Eastern airlines, or the South American Airlines and then come back to us?
As others have said, where competition exists Air NZ has lower fares. Some flights you pay more for because they are the only direct NZ connection. Take the USA. If for some reason you actually preferred the service on Qantas and wanted to fly there... Guess what? 6am flight to Aussie for you. With Air NZ you don't just pay for the flight but the amazing time that they leave. There is a lot more to it than just "service."
I mean, you do not like Air NZ. I get that. But you have listed some of the words top rated airlines there. Comparing Air NZ to Singapore? Yeah sure Singapore, fighting it out with airlines like Qatar, is going to beat Air NZ.
But why don't you go fly the European airlines, or the lower cost Middle Eastern airlines, or the South American Airlines and then come back to us?
As others have said, where competition exists Air NZ has lower fares. Some flights you pay more for because they are the only direct NZ connection. Take the USA. If for some reason you actually preferred the service on Qantas and wanted to fly there... Guess what? 6am flight to Aussie for you. With Air NZ you don't just pay for the flight but the amazing time that they leave. There is a lot more to it than just "service."
Feb 19, 2019, 4:48 pm
#11
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 52
I have to agree with others. Personally I prefer the QF/NZ/VA style of service. I dont want to get fawned all over for 13 hours like you do in some of the other carriers. I like the casual but professional kiwi/Aussie service style of the home carriers. I might add that QF fares ex Syd are likewise much more expensive than others. Its the home turf advantage and these carriers are brilliant operators because they are smaller they have to ensure that they operate effectively.
Also the COB in NZ/Aus is much higher. Wages etc are all much higher than Asian/Middle East carriers so that cost needs to be recouped.
NZ do a great job competing against airlines much more resourced (ME3 with oil subsidies, Asian carriers with 3rd world wages). Sure the seat is dated - but it is more than adequate and the service style if it suits you is also exceptional. The price is the price and Im sure everyone knows that more than one airline exists.
I always find it interesting that a lot of people that slam AirNZ are also the same people bemoaning NZ jobs going offshore and the lack of opportunities for Kiwis. Not saying that is the case here - but something that Ive found to be an interesting experience as an outsider coming to this country.
Also the COB in NZ/Aus is much higher. Wages etc are all much higher than Asian/Middle East carriers so that cost needs to be recouped.
NZ do a great job competing against airlines much more resourced (ME3 with oil subsidies, Asian carriers with 3rd world wages). Sure the seat is dated - but it is more than adequate and the service style if it suits you is also exceptional. The price is the price and Im sure everyone knows that more than one airline exists.
I always find it interesting that a lot of people that slam AirNZ are also the same people bemoaning NZ jobs going offshore and the lack of opportunities for Kiwis. Not saying that is the case here - but something that Ive found to be an interesting experience as an outsider coming to this country.
Feb 19, 2019, 6:15 pm
#12
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 646
To say they were not spectacular is kind. I have read less flattering remarks than that here. New hard product can't come soon enough.
It is not the first time high pricing is also mentioned here.
Feb 19, 2019, 7:50 pm
#13
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: New Zealand (when I'm home!)
Programs: Air NZ Elite
Posts: 1,218
Really?
Like, no. I mean, sure again, compare us to Cathay, Singapore, Qatar - Air NZ will not win. But it's most certainly up there in the top 15-20 airlines in the world for J when it comes to service. The seat is questionable, but I'd say that it's THE comfiest J seat I have flown, bar none, for sleeping. It may not be the most private, or the fanciest, but I get the BEST sleep in the Air NZ seat out of all of the J seats I've tried. They make up your bed for you with a wonderful cover and you have access to some incredible pillows. Privacy, no, not great. But service? It is excellent. Again I don't think it's fair to come and list the best airlines in the world and say "oh look, you aren't as good as them." Well no sherlock, that doesn't make it bad.
I've flown around the world in J and when you do that, you quickly see how good we truly have it.
Go fly in J with USA based airlines.
Go fly in J with South American airlines.
Go fly in J with European airlines.
They just don't compare. It's Asia/upper Middle Eastern airlines > AUS/NZ airlines > other regions of the world.
And on that note, again: I don't know ANYONE who has said they prefer long haul with Qantas over Air NZ for service. I will say I prefer Virgin (but they don't have flights every day so they're an unreliable airline to align with) but literally, go to the Qantas forum and there is a post where people talk about whether they get hot towels out of LAX. Half the time, they literally don't give you a hot towel, just because they don't feel like it. Again, TT flights they do great service. But long haul? I'll happily fly Air NZ over Qantas any day.
And to come in and complain about premium economy? Like OP did? We literally have the best PE product in the world. Air NZ has every right to charge for that what it does.
And as others have said: All of these other airlines become a whole lot less cheap once you're a citizen flying out of your own home airport. We get Qantas & VA flights cheaper because they're competing for our service, since those flight times/paths are sub-optimal for us.
I'm also up there with Tag. I do not like the overly attentive service I find in Asian airlines. I can say it's very good, it's just not for me. It's nice to just relax and chill. I find Air NZ/VA service to be perfect. That'll be a cultural thing, and it makes sense as a Kiwi myself that I find this region's level of service the "right level" for me. It's a personal preference. I flew with Singapore in First, and my god, they are constantly looking at you. It was fun one time but never, ever again.
Like, no. I mean, sure again, compare us to Cathay, Singapore, Qatar - Air NZ will not win. But it's most certainly up there in the top 15-20 airlines in the world for J when it comes to service. The seat is questionable, but I'd say that it's THE comfiest J seat I have flown, bar none, for sleeping. It may not be the most private, or the fanciest, but I get the BEST sleep in the Air NZ seat out of all of the J seats I've tried. They make up your bed for you with a wonderful cover and you have access to some incredible pillows. Privacy, no, not great. But service? It is excellent. Again I don't think it's fair to come and list the best airlines in the world and say "oh look, you aren't as good as them." Well no sherlock, that doesn't make it bad.
I've flown around the world in J and when you do that, you quickly see how good we truly have it.
Go fly in J with USA based airlines.
Go fly in J with South American airlines.
Go fly in J with European airlines.
They just don't compare. It's Asia/upper Middle Eastern airlines > AUS/NZ airlines > other regions of the world.
And on that note, again: I don't know ANYONE who has said they prefer long haul with Qantas over Air NZ for service. I will say I prefer Virgin (but they don't have flights every day so they're an unreliable airline to align with) but literally, go to the Qantas forum and there is a post where people talk about whether they get hot towels out of LAX. Half the time, they literally don't give you a hot towel, just because they don't feel like it. Again, TT flights they do great service. But long haul? I'll happily fly Air NZ over Qantas any day.
And to come in and complain about premium economy? Like OP did? We literally have the best PE product in the world. Air NZ has every right to charge for that what it does.
And as others have said: All of these other airlines become a whole lot less cheap once you're a citizen flying out of your own home airport. We get Qantas & VA flights cheaper because they're competing for our service, since those flight times/paths are sub-optimal for us.
I'm also up there with Tag. I do not like the overly attentive service I find in Asian airlines. I can say it's very good, it's just not for me. It's nice to just relax and chill. I find Air NZ/VA service to be perfect. That'll be a cultural thing, and it makes sense as a Kiwi myself that I find this region's level of service the "right level" for me. It's a personal preference. I flew with Singapore in First, and my god, they are constantly looking at you. It was fun one time but never, ever again.
Last edited by kiwifrequentflyer; Feb 19, 2019 at 7:55 pm
Feb 19, 2019, 8:05 pm
#14
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: New Zealand (most of the time)
Programs: Air NZ Elite *G, Honors Gold, IHG Platinum Elite
Posts: 6,150
Part of the issue is you can't really base an airline just on one aircraft type, one route, or even one experience.
Anybody flying SQ in Business class to SIN from WLG (or from MEL) would no doubt be shocked to see a non refurbished plane that's 16 years old and doesn't even have fully lie flat seats yet it has a price point that goes with a product that should be a lot better.
Should everybody's opinion of SQ be based solely off that?
Anybody flying SQ in Business class to SIN from WLG (or from MEL) would no doubt be shocked to see a non refurbished plane that's 16 years old and doesn't even have fully lie flat seats yet it has a price point that goes with a product that should be a lot better.
Should everybody's opinion of SQ be based solely off that?
Feb 19, 2019, 8:14 pm
#15
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NZ
Programs: NZ*E, QF-G, EK-P
Posts: 607
For what it is worth I am with Kiwifrequentflyer here
The PE product is excellent and I would say in my experience (and i have done LH in most of the big ones) NZ beats them hands down
In terms of business - a couple of years ago I was despondent with AirNZ and spread my flights around - and got more experience, but ultimately came back to NZ based on convenience of timing and better sleep. QF is great TT and they feed into the domestic network more smoothly than NZ even after the code-share started and now I have platinum its great and my preferred airline TT. But I have flown LH 1/2 dozen times now and have been really disappointed each time with rubbish sleeps. My desire to try the Akl-MEL-PER-LHR was a foolish mistake !!!!
And while some people here have said the food quality if declining, I don't agree, if you mix up the routes you are flying there is a really good range and selection of J meals - I do wish they would be more adventurous transpacific - but I can honestly say I have never though after a meal - 'that was shi$" - I think perception waxes and wanes depending on tastes - the last couple of cycles have had some great meals on them and flying to IAH next week and looking forward to the meals!! But I enjoy Cobb and Co with the kids so maybe the bar isn't that high !!
And I also agree with KFF - i would prefer more privacy, but if that came at a trade off from the fantastic lie flat bed - I would take the bed over more privacy - it depends what you want. I get to use J so I can sleep and I without fail always get a solid 8-9 hours on transpacific flights - now I have the Bose white noise ear buds its even better (shameless plug!!)
I think everyones mileage varies - but NZ clear are not short of people who think the product is reasonable. I absolutely hate the LAX transit and when I am standing in that hall I curse AIrNZ and the fact they cannot negotiate a better deal for someone paying $12K to London, but I have yet to find a more comfortable bed.
The PE product is excellent and I would say in my experience (and i have done LH in most of the big ones) NZ beats them hands down
In terms of business - a couple of years ago I was despondent with AirNZ and spread my flights around - and got more experience, but ultimately came back to NZ based on convenience of timing and better sleep. QF is great TT and they feed into the domestic network more smoothly than NZ even after the code-share started and now I have platinum its great and my preferred airline TT. But I have flown LH 1/2 dozen times now and have been really disappointed each time with rubbish sleeps. My desire to try the Akl-MEL-PER-LHR was a foolish mistake !!!!
And while some people here have said the food quality if declining, I don't agree, if you mix up the routes you are flying there is a really good range and selection of J meals - I do wish they would be more adventurous transpacific - but I can honestly say I have never though after a meal - 'that was shi$" - I think perception waxes and wanes depending on tastes - the last couple of cycles have had some great meals on them and flying to IAH next week and looking forward to the meals!! But I enjoy Cobb and Co with the kids so maybe the bar isn't that high !!
And I also agree with KFF - i would prefer more privacy, but if that came at a trade off from the fantastic lie flat bed - I would take the bed over more privacy - it depends what you want. I get to use J so I can sleep and I without fail always get a solid 8-9 hours on transpacific flights - now I have the Bose white noise ear buds its even better (shameless plug!!)
I think everyones mileage varies - but NZ clear are not short of people who think the product is reasonable. I absolutely hate the LAX transit and when I am standing in that hall I curse AIrNZ and the fact they cannot negotiate a better deal for someone paying $12K to London, but I have yet to find a more comfortable bed.