[Flying Blue] Reservations auto-canceled by Air France payment control
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 28
[Flying Blue] Reservations auto-canceled by Air France payment control
I recently made a couple reservations with Flying Blue using AF for CAN-SYX in April, a short flight operated by China Southern (CZ). I'm going with my partner and her parents, so there are 4 of us in total. This was a great redemption - 7.5k mi + $12 for a $262 flight, but the harrowing experience has made it not worth it.
Making these reservations has proved to be a nightmare due to constant availability changes. Unlike on Delta, where I can see full CZ availability (7 flights a day), AF only shows 1-2 flights at most (usually none at all) and I have to keep checking throughout the day. I don't know if this is terrible IT or a nefarious "bug" to make it harder to redeem miles. Unfortunately I didn't know this before I transferred miles to FB (it showed availability when I first checked), but persisted until I was able to make the reservations. (I tried calling FB but they said they saw the same availability I did.) So these flights weren't phantom availability in the sense that once they showed up, they were actually bookable.
~2 weeks ago I successfully made a reservation for myself and my partner - and everything worked out and ticketed and I could assign seats on CZ. I didn't have enough miles to book the other 2 pax.
Last night I saw availability for that flight show up again, and made a second reservation for 2 more passenegers. It also went through, I got ticket numbers, and I was able to assign seats on the CZ website.
This morning I woke up to two overnight emails like this:
The reservations also now show up as "Not issued" in the Air France app, though I can still access them on CZ.
Screenshot:
Has anyone run into a similar issue? I'm in the US and booked using the same card for both reservations - my only guess is that AF didn't like making a reservation for someone else with miles (since I was only on the first reservation) but that hasn't been a problem before. And I don't know why they'd cancel both reservations, including the one from 2 weeks ago.
Making these reservations has proved to be a nightmare due to constant availability changes. Unlike on Delta, where I can see full CZ availability (7 flights a day), AF only shows 1-2 flights at most (usually none at all) and I have to keep checking throughout the day. I don't know if this is terrible IT or a nefarious "bug" to make it harder to redeem miles. Unfortunately I didn't know this before I transferred miles to FB (it showed availability when I first checked), but persisted until I was able to make the reservations. (I tried calling FB but they said they saw the same availability I did.) So these flights weren't phantom availability in the sense that once they showed up, they were actually bookable.
~2 weeks ago I successfully made a reservation for myself and my partner - and everything worked out and ticketed and I could assign seats on CZ. I didn't have enough miles to book the other 2 pax.
Last night I saw availability for that flight show up again, and made a second reservation for 2 more passenegers. It also went through, I got ticket numbers, and I was able to assign seats on the CZ website.
This morning I woke up to two overnight emails like this:
From: [email protected]
Subject: Action requise sur votre rservation // Action required on your booking
Ceci est un mail automatique, merci de ne pas rpondre
Les informations que vous avez communiques pour votre rservation REDACTED ne nous permettent pas de maintenir l'mission de vos documents de voyage.
Le montant de la transaction est recrdit sur la carte de crdit utilise.
Service de contrle des paiements Air France
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is an automatic email. Do not reply
The information you have provided for your booking reference REDACTED does not allow us to maintain the issue of your travel documents.
Full amount will be reversed on card used.
Air France payment control
Please confirm that you have received and read this notification by clicking the following link, or copy and pasting it into your browser's addressbar:
<redacted>
Subject: Action requise sur votre rservation // Action required on your booking
Ceci est un mail automatique, merci de ne pas rpondre
Les informations que vous avez communiques pour votre rservation REDACTED ne nous permettent pas de maintenir l'mission de vos documents de voyage.
Le montant de la transaction est recrdit sur la carte de crdit utilise.
Service de contrle des paiements Air France
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is an automatic email. Do not reply
The information you have provided for your booking reference REDACTED does not allow us to maintain the issue of your travel documents.
Full amount will be reversed on card used.
Air France payment control
Please confirm that you have received and read this notification by clicking the following link, or copy and pasting it into your browser's addressbar:
<redacted>
Screenshot:
Spoiler
Has anyone run into a similar issue? I'm in the US and booked using the same card for both reservations - my only guess is that AF didn't like making a reservation for someone else with miles (since I was only on the first reservation) but that hasn't been a problem before. And I don't know why they'd cancel both reservations, including the one from 2 weeks ago.
Last edited by airtimeprimus; Mar 13, 2024 at 3:03 pm
#2
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 28
To give an update, I called Flying Blue and at first the rep there told me it's a false alarm and the reservations are still active and not to worry about it. Shortly after, he called back to confirm that indeed the system did cancel the reservations (he didn't know why?) and said they are in the process of cancellation and he can't do anything, other than help refund the miles right away and book a new reservation. Of course, the same flight isn't available since there were only 5 seats and we took 4 of them.
I asked if there's a way to stop the cancellation and he suggested reaching out to Flying Blue via this form (a different team that he said might be able to help undo the cancellation or rebook), so that's what I did now. (Didn't get any kind of confirmation email for the inquiry.)
There are still 2 1/2 weeks left until the flight but I'm starting to get worried if I end up back at square one and it will be too late by the time the original reservation drops. And of course, no explanation for why it was canceled in the first place?
I asked if there's a way to stop the cancellation and he suggested reaching out to Flying Blue via this form (a different team that he said might be able to help undo the cancellation or rebook), so that's what I did now. (Didn't get any kind of confirmation email for the inquiry.)
There are still 2 1/2 weeks left until the flight but I'm starting to get worried if I end up back at square one and it will be too late by the time the original reservation drops. And of course, no explanation for why it was canceled in the first place?
#3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: FRA/SXB
Programs: FB Gold
Posts: 2,409
Have you ever flown or credited an actual flight to Flying Blue ? If not, do a search for the numerous cases of tickets being cancelled by people who never credit to FB then transfer miles for rdemption (fraud is a good search term).
In such a case, you will get neither your ticket nor points back.
In such a case, you will get neither your ticket nor points back.
#4
Join Date: Oct 2019
Programs: Flying Blue, Hilton Honors, Amtrak Guest Rewards
Posts: 2,686
How convenient is it for you to visit JFK, LAX, IAD, BOS, or SFO in the next week or so? Alternatively, is flying a quick revenue hop on DL and crediting the flight to Flying Blue in the next few days possible?
Assuming you have never credited a revenue flight to Flying Blue, this fraud flagging is not uncommon (and a ticket where you're not on the reservation to/from China is the sort of thing that is likely to get flagged); there are data points of doing these getting the "possible mileage broker" flag cleared.
Signing up for the BofA Flying Blue credit card would also probably get you the XP which seems to prevent the fraud flagging, though I don't know if that's viable on this short notice.
Assuming you have never credited a revenue flight to Flying Blue, this fraud flagging is not uncommon (and a ticket where you're not on the reservation to/from China is the sort of thing that is likely to get flagged); there are data points of doing these getting the "possible mileage broker" flag cleared.
Signing up for the BofA Flying Blue credit card would also probably get you the XP which seems to prevent the fraud flagging, though I don't know if that's viable on this short notice.
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 28
I'm based out of SFO, but taking a random RT flight just to bless my FB account wasn't something I planned to do. hhdl - is there something else I can do at SFO?
I have used FB in the past for rewards bookings but generally I've credited my DL account even when flying on AF.
Update: FB replied back by email and credited the miles back to my account, and said they will refund for airport taxes. They also said, "However, a fee of 50 euros per ticket applies." - which doesn't make sense at all since I didn't request the cancellation. So I do have my miles back, but also the reservations are still showing up in-limbo and taking up award space.
Update 2: agent corrected and said to disregard the 50 euro fee notice but basically said I'm on my own to rebook.
If I manage to rebook as a single reservation with all 4 pax on the same PNR, would that help address the fraud flagging?
I have used FB in the past for rewards bookings but generally I've credited my DL account even when flying on AF.
Update: FB replied back by email and credited the miles back to my account, and said they will refund for airport taxes. They also said, "However, a fee of 50 euros per ticket applies." - which doesn't make sense at all since I didn't request the cancellation. So I do have my miles back, but also the reservations are still showing up in-limbo and taking up award space.
Update 2: agent corrected and said to disregard the 50 euro fee notice but basically said I'm on my own to rebook.
If I manage to rebook as a single reservation with all 4 pax on the same PNR, would that help address the fraud flagging?
Last edited by airtimeprimus; Mar 13, 2024 at 3:40 pm
#6
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: FRA/SXB
Programs: FB Gold
Posts: 2,409
I'm based out of SFO, but taking a random RT flight just to bless my FB account wasn't something I planned to do. hhdl - is there something else I can do at SFO?
I have used FB in the past for rewards bookings but generally I've credited my DL account even when flying on AF.
Update: FB replied back by email and credited the miles back to my account, and said they will refund for airport taxes. They also said, "However, a fee of 50 euros per ticket applies." - which doesn't make sense at all since I didn't request the cancellation. So I do have my miles back, but also the reservations are still showing up in-limbo and taking up award space.
Update 2: agent corrected and said to disregard the 50 euro fee notice but basically said I'm on my own to rebook.
If I manage to rebook as a single reservation with all 4 pax on the same PNR, would that help address the fraud flagging?
I have used FB in the past for rewards bookings but generally I've credited my DL account even when flying on AF.
Update: FB replied back by email and credited the miles back to my account, and said they will refund for airport taxes. They also said, "However, a fee of 50 euros per ticket applies." - which doesn't make sense at all since I didn't request the cancellation. So I do have my miles back, but also the reservations are still showing up in-limbo and taking up award space.
Update 2: agent corrected and said to disregard the 50 euro fee notice but basically said I'm on my own to rebook.
If I manage to rebook as a single reservation with all 4 pax on the same PNR, would that help address the fraud flagging?
C'est pas compliqu.
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 28
I understand - I've read several threads on this. I've had my account open since 2016 and have taken several award flights (with and without companions) without issue, and I've also spend thousands on AF flights, just crediting them to DL. Hence my asking if what triggered this was booking for others (which might look like mileage brokerage) rather than having a single PNR (which I haven't had issues with before, albeit with 1 instead of 3 companions).
Worst comes to worst, I'll have to save the AF miles for another flight, but the whole "credit a paid flight to FB" to not get cancelled isn't exactly something well-communicated or expected from what I'd think is a legitimate use of FB miles.
Worst comes to worst, I'll have to save the AF miles for another flight, but the whole "credit a paid flight to FB" to not get cancelled isn't exactly something well-communicated or expected from what I'd think is a legitimate use of FB miles.
#8
Join Date: Oct 2019
Programs: Flying Blue, Hilton Honors, Amtrak Guest Rewards
Posts: 2,686
There are hazy data points suggesting that AF ticket counters can verify that you are a real person and not brokering miles, though what that entails (e.g. how you ask for such a thing: it may help if you book and then show up with the people who are flying with you, in which case the agent notes that this is legitimate) isn't clear. It generally seems to be airports where AFKL fly multiple times daily and haven't outsourced their ops to DL (e.g. because they operate out of a different terminal from DL) that have actual AF agents.
I suspect it's the combination of not being on the PNR, and flying in Asia (which is notorious for mileage brokering: most of the airlines in that area impose heavy controls on booking for others (must pre-register people you might book awards for, or must be on the PNR, etc.)). Which is more important or if it's additive, who knows?
As noted, earning an XP (if you can fly a Flying Blue award on AFKL and buy SAF that will probably also do) is basically the only way to set your account up for a dramatically reduced chance of being flagged.
I suspect it's the combination of not being on the PNR, and flying in Asia (which is notorious for mileage brokering: most of the airlines in that area impose heavy controls on booking for others (must pre-register people you might book awards for, or must be on the PNR, etc.)). Which is more important or if it's additive, who knows?
As noted, earning an XP (if you can fly a Flying Blue award on AFKL and buy SAF that will probably also do) is basically the only way to set your account up for a dramatically reduced chance of being flagged.
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,915
My understanding is that you never credited flights on your FB account, just used it to transfer miles from somewhere (credit card or other sources) and book awards.
As mentioned above, AF (and some other airlines) do not like it. AF has become increasingly hostile to such behavior.
It could be that your account was not flagged when you did the first booking for yourself, but did get flagged by the second booking where you don't even appear.
My guess is that your account is now flagged and it will be very difficult to use it for any award.
You now have 30k miles sitting in your account that will be difficult to use until you credit some revenue flights. Even then, it might take time/energy to unflag it, especially booking flights for some unrelated person.
As mentioned above, AF (and some other airlines) do not like it. AF has become increasingly hostile to such behavior.
It could be that your account was not flagged when you did the first booking for yourself, but did get flagged by the second booking where you don't even appear.
My guess is that your account is now flagged and it will be very difficult to use it for any award.
You now have 30k miles sitting in your account that will be difficult to use until you credit some revenue flights. Even then, it might take time/energy to unflag it, especially booking flights for some unrelated person.
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 29,419
#11
Join Date: Oct 2019
Programs: Flying Blue, Hilton Honors, Amtrak Guest Rewards
Posts: 2,686
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 29,419
#13
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: VPS
Programs: IHG Diamond, Delta PM, Hilton Gold, Accor Gold, Marriott Silver
Posts: 7,607
Thoughts on whether a couple of XPs from a FB/Accor hotels account linking and stay promotion would work?
#15
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CDG
Programs: AF Platinum, SK Gold, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 3,962
If FB wants to prevent people with no activity from booking award tickets with transferred FB miles, they can do so from the beginning, rather than issuing the tickets first and cancelling them later with very opaque communication and no process whatsoever for proving the legitimacy of the transaction.
In short, just because we're used to it, doesn't mean it's normal.