Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#1786
Join Date: May 2017
Location: MAN
Programs: FB Platinum
Posts: 313
Well, for flights within the EU you actually need to fly more to reach certain levels. Eg for Gold you now need 36 international sectors, while that used to be 30.
If you do a mix of EU and intercontinental it may be more beneficial as the longer flights now give more credits.
If you do a mix of EU and intercontinental it may be more beneficial as the longer flights now give more credits.
#1787
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
#1788
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 757
This increases the amount of elite members as well.
As a company you have to adapt to today’s standard. If they proceed the old system then the amount of elites will grow too much and already today the lounges are packed, SkyPriority lines are long and the Platinum Service Line is often not available because it’s too busy. They need to change something.
The new system does manage the amount of award seats used per flight (thus more rev seats) but does not manage the amount of elites well enough and therefor I think FB miscalculated the effects.
#1789
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SE England
Programs: AF-KL Platinum, ALL Platinum
Posts: 755
With the new rules on earning Miles, are there people whos flying is now earning them more? Are the majority of people now earning less in the new program? I know the rules are now 100% base fare & surcharges based and e.g. discounted tickets have taken a huge reduction in Miles earning. In all my flights since 1st April I am earning significantly less than I would have done and that the only way for me to earn the same amount of Miles now would be to greatly increase the price I pay for tickets.
But are there people who are now earning more Miles when they fly on the same ticket (i.e. route, cabin, sub-booking class) now than pre-1st April?. FB tell me there are winners and losers due to the changes and that the net effect is that it is all balances itself!! But it seems to me that the losers are much more worse off (e.g. on one ticket I had a Miles reduction of ~80% to that I would have earnt if flew the ticket pre-1st April; earnt about 7,200 Miles but which would habe been about 36,500 Miles). But I doubt anyone earns 80% more Miles on a ticket now compared to if they had flow pre-1st April.
But are there people who are now earning more Miles when they fly on the same ticket (i.e. route, cabin, sub-booking class) now than pre-1st April?. FB tell me there are winners and losers due to the changes and that the net effect is that it is all balances itself!! But it seems to me that the losers are much more worse off (e.g. on one ticket I had a Miles reduction of ~80% to that I would have earnt if flew the ticket pre-1st April; earnt about 7,200 Miles but which would habe been about 36,500 Miles). But I doubt anyone earns 80% more Miles on a ticket now compared to if they had flow pre-1st April.
#1790
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,063
I doubt that. It is trivial to take the data of your FB customers over the past few years and apply the new rules over this, to find out the effect of your new rules compared to the old ones. Hell I did that for myself in a few minutes of looking through my history (and found that given that pattern, the XP system was an improvement for me.)
#1791
Join Date: May 2017
Location: LYS
Programs: FB Plat
Posts: 438
A AF lounge dragon clearly mentionned that they hope to get less pax in the lounge thanks to the new XP system. I don't know at that point if it's just one employee's wish or the direction's announcement, however it seems clearly plausible that the new scheme tries to reduce the amount of Elite+ pax.
#1792
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,063
I expect there is a specific type of customer that they want fewer of in their lounges, namely the one that doesn't make them any money if they keep using them because they are qualifying on those cheap €99 intra-europe flights with a (possibly French domestic) connection. You'll note you need a lot more of those to qualify now.
If the new system shifts qualifying pax from those to those that have an easier time qualifying because they fly long-haul, that's probably working as intended.
If the new system shifts qualifying pax from those to those that have an easier time qualifying because they fly long-haul, that's probably working as intended.
#1793
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
it seems clearly plausible that the new scheme tries to reduce the amount of Elite+ pax.
#1794
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
Disappointing.
#1795
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,531
I generally agree. The only caveat I would mention is that the new system makes it harder/take longer for newcomers to reach high status than before so I suppose one could make the argument that beyond the reduction in miles/liability and stringently reducing award offer, particularly in premium classes, which I agree seem to be the main goals of the change, FB has arguably chosen to also make it harder for newcomers to access high status and/or discourage short term status chasers whilst not upsetting existing status members.
#1796
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,531
The chances of miscalculation strike me as negligible and instead, I think that NickB is right that this is not the main goal at all (though as I mention, maybe the "thinning" at entry level is the exception in order to exclude a certain category of opportunistic status holders of sorts)
#1797
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,730
I'm typically a €99 return type guy, which in the old days, for short flights, would have amounted to 2 * 188 = 376 miles.
This weekend's flight got me 423 miles.
Granted, I am silver now, so if I was an Explorer that would only have been 280 miles, but still...
#1798
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 4,412
Yes - me.
I'm typically a €99 return type guy, which in the old days, for short flights, would have amounted to 2 * 188 = 376 miles.
This weekend's flight got me 423 miles.
Granted, I am silver now, so if I was an Explorer that would only have been 280 miles, but still...
I'm typically a €99 return type guy, which in the old days, for short flights, would have amounted to 2 * 188 = 376 miles.
This weekend's flight got me 423 miles.
Granted, I am silver now, so if I was an Explorer that would only have been 280 miles, but still...
#1799
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,730
However, for these short journeys, if you can't find a ticket with the "mileageable" fare under about €94, you're ahead under the new scheme, regardless of status.
By way of example, my previous KLM flight - which wasn't bought at the cheapest €99 price point - earned me 957 miles, instead of the 564 that it would have delivered in the old scheme as you point out above.
#1800
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Switzerland
Programs: AFKL Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador Elite
Posts: 369
Bad - but consistent to what happened to me in the past with a KL marketed flight, AZ operated and domestic inside Italy. J booking class but only Y service - and that determines the actual XPs.