Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#1036
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Switzerland
Programs: AFKL Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador Elite
Posts: 369
I wonder if after these changes there are suddenly going to be, or maybe a bit later, a lot of mileage earning offers similar to IHG Rewards (the points programme of Holiday Inn, Crowne Plaza, etc.). While I think we'll be able to work out a number of sweet spots in the earning of XPs I think general mileage earning for flight activities is going to be way down. So they might do something potentially interesting to compensate.
Personally, I am shooting for Gold before the end of March (as I wrote in another thread). I'm up to 18 segments and I have very little time left for making trips and getting 3 days together will be impossible. So one of the trips I am looking at booking is Geneva to Cagliari on AZ (haven't done it yet because it is really difficult juggling a shifting rehearsal schedule and work in the conservatoire). Another is possibly Zurich to Catania (again on AZ) and/or Zurich to Madrid and then some domestic sectors on UX. For example, I found Madrid to Valencia (via Barcelona and Palma) yielding 6 sectors for a round trip for EUR140. The problem for me having the time to do this - this is my busy time of year!!
Personally, I am shooting for Gold before the end of March (as I wrote in another thread). I'm up to 18 segments and I have very little time left for making trips and getting 3 days together will be impossible. So one of the trips I am looking at booking is Geneva to Cagliari on AZ (haven't done it yet because it is really difficult juggling a shifting rehearsal schedule and work in the conservatoire). Another is possibly Zurich to Catania (again on AZ) and/or Zurich to Madrid and then some domestic sectors on UX. For example, I found Madrid to Valencia (via Barcelona and Palma) yielding 6 sectors for a round trip for EUR140. The problem for me having the time to do this - this is my busy time of year!!
#1037
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: GOT
Programs: KL Plat
Posts: 484
Thank you. I was indeed able to see the taxes breakdown on Saudia and KLsites. No YQ for medium-haul it seems.
I checked also another business trip (booked through the OTA used by my company) and it's impossible in this case to see the fare breakdown, because booked by an OTA (even if it's all AFKL flights). Unbelievable how complicated it is to know a simple info : how many miles I will earn ?
I checked also another business trip (booked through the OTA used by my company) and it's impossible in this case to see the fare breakdown, because booked by an OTA (even if it's all AFKL flights). Unbelievable how complicated it is to know a simple info : how many miles I will earn ?
However, I always get the warm feeling of seeing the 'total paid' on KL.com being usually EUR 25 more than what I actually paid
#1038
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,928
It has been a long time that I didn't check a flight booked by an OTA.
If you can contact your company's OTA directly, you should be able to get an e-ticket + Passenger itinerary receipt that normally is just a long report in monospace font, like the one you get if you ever booked a flight with the Platinum Service line.
If you can contact your company's OTA directly, you should be able to get an e-ticket + Passenger itinerary receipt that normally is just a long report in monospace font, like the one you get if you ever booked a flight with the Platinum Service line.
For every ticket I've booked via an OTA, I can go to KL.com and view the payment breakdown although it takes a few hours typically from making payment to the ticket being visible on KL.com. Before that I can view the itinerary with the PNR, but baggage allowance (and payment details) isn't visible till ticketing is complete.
#1039
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,623
Geneva to CAG on AZ should give you 4 segments RT because the only normal routing you can find is via FCO. If you want 6 segments, you can actually get it with AFKL - e.g., GVA/ZRH to CDG/AMS to FCO to any minor Italian airport not served directly by AFKL, like CAG. Note that the fares between Switzerland and CAG can be a little expensive though. You might want to stay with your 18 segments before march - that would give you 126 XP, and get a cheap 4-leg O with AF just after April 1, that will give you 60 XP - slightly more than you need to become gold. Example? Any roundtrip like ZRH-CDG-MAD, ZRH-CDG-FCO, etc. They're normally around 400-500 CHF. Example: ZRH-MAD in O with AF , 7/8 of April, 476 CHF at the moment.
#1040
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Switzerland
Programs: AFKL Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador Elite
Posts: 369
Interesting suggestion and very tempting, with all the obligations I've got around this period. The reason I am shooting for Gold before April is that I think I will have it for 2 years, from what I've understood after reading other threads. If I qualify using the route you suggest, then I will have it for only 1 year. Of course, it is possible that I am completely wrong about the 2 years of Gold, so this is going to be a gamble. If I can get my bookings in now, it will cost me about EUR450 to get there (12 segments needed). BTW the ZRH-CTA route was going for as little as EUR135 on AZ (O-class).
#1041
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,623
Actually, I'm twisting and turning with it. I'm finding it very very hard to match up any free time, including taking time off or cancelling rehearsals, with the most reasonable fares. In expedia you have to specify the airline (one of the ST carriers) each time, otherwise it quotes fares with an outbound on AZ and in inbound on many other carriers including U2, but not Skyteam. Ideally two 4-segment trips down to CAG and CTA along with a 4-segment trip to MAD (or similar in Spain). Or, one 4-segment trip to CAG/CAT and a 2-segment trip (on UX) from ZRH to MAD, followed by a run on UX while I'm there.
#1042
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: GOT
Programs: KL Plat
Posts: 484
Actually, I'm twisting and turning with it. I'm finding it very very hard to match up any free time, including taking time off or cancelling rehearsals, with the most reasonable fares. In expedia you have to specify the airline (one of the ST carriers) each time, otherwise it quotes fares with an outbound on AZ and in inbound on many other carriers including U2, but not Skyteam. Ideally two 4-segment trips down to CAG and CTA along with a 4-segment trip to MAD (or similar in Spain). Or, one 4-segment trip to CAG/CAT and a 2-segment trip (on UX) from ZRH to MAD, followed by a run on UX while I'm there.
#1043
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Switzerland
Programs: AFKL Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador Elite
Posts: 369
Actually, I'm twisting and turning with it. I'm finding it very very hard to match up any free time, including taking time off or cancelling rehearsals, with the most reasonable fares. In expedia you have to specify the airline (one of the ST carriers) each time, otherwise it quotes fares with an outbound on AZ and in inbound on many other carriers including U2, but not Skyteam. Ideally two 4-segment trips down to CAG and CTA along with a 4-segment trip to MAD (or similar in Spain). Or, one 4-segment trip to CAG/CAT and a 2-segment trip (on UX) from ZRH to MAD, followed by a run on UX while I'm there.
#1044
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SJJ/AMS
Posts: 4,647
G
#1045
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,623
By the way, I found ZRH-CTA pretty cheap on certain days, as low as EUR133 round trip. Sorry if I already mentioned that. Also, I found that an OJ trip to Madrid on AF with start-point in BSL and end-point in GVA came in also at EUR133. My problem is that the internally nested ticket back from MAD to Switzerland was surprisingly expensive.
#1046
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: Flying Blue
Posts: 47
I just made a booking for June 2018 with AF/KL from BLL via AMS and CDG to JFK and back via CDG to BLL in Y, so 5 segments in total. I was delighted to see i will get 35 XP, so 3 x 5 XP for the short haul segments and 2 x 10 XP for the long haul segments. So now, it is easier for me to maintain my Platinum status.
But when i looked at the amount of miles, i will be earning only 2.611 award miles. I know i bought a cheap fare, 402 euro's for this trip, but still, 2611 miles is so far from what it used to be, i think the amount of miles has been decreased with at least 50%. Is this correct?
Do i see this in the right perspective to assume that it is worthwhile to earn the old amount of award miles before 1 april with a mile age run on Skyteam long haul flights?
But when i looked at the amount of miles, i will be earning only 2.611 award miles. I know i bought a cheap fare, 402 euro's for this trip, but still, 2611 miles is so far from what it used to be, i think the amount of miles has been decreased with at least 50%. Is this correct?
Do i see this in the right perspective to assume that it is worthwhile to earn the old amount of award miles before 1 april with a mile age run on Skyteam long haul flights?
#1047
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
As there now appears to be a parallel conversation in progress, could I suggest that all further discussion of mileage runs - whether theoretical, practical, or otherwise - be done in the other thread?
Mileage run suggestions please
Thanks!
Mileage run suggestions please
Thanks!
#1048
Join Date: May 2014
Location: AMS
Programs: FB Platinum | A3 Gold | BA Silver
Posts: 58
I just made a booking for June 2018 with AF/KL from BLL via AMS and CDG to JFK and back via CDG to BLL in Y, so 5 segments in total. I was delighted to see i will get 35 XP, so 3 x 5 XP for the short haul segments and 2 x 10 XP for the long haul segments. So now, it is easier for me to maintain my Platinum status.
But when i looked at the amount of miles, i will be earning only 2.611 award miles. I know i bought a cheap fare, 402 euro's for this trip, but still, 2611 miles is so far from what it used to be, i think the amount of miles has been decreased with at least 50%. Is this correct?
Do i see this in the right perspective to assume that it is worthwhile to earn the old amount of award miles before 1 april with a mile age run on Skyteam long haul flights?
But when i looked at the amount of miles, i will be earning only 2.611 award miles. I know i bought a cheap fare, 402 euro's for this trip, but still, 2611 miles is so far from what it used to be, i think the amount of miles has been decreased with at least 50%. Is this correct?
Do i see this in the right perspective to assume that it is worthwhile to earn the old amount of award miles before 1 april with a mile age run on Skyteam long haul flights?
Now you are earning 2.611 award miles meaning your base fare without fees/taxes but including airline surcharges costs 325.37 euro's. This is assuming that the calculator is working correctly... which I think it is because 80 euro's in fees/taxes seems to be correct.
As reported earlier in this thread. In some cases the new system works out so you earn more miles and in some cases you will earn less miles. All in all we hope it averages out.
#1050
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,623
As there now appears to be a parallel conversation in progress, could I suggest that all further discussion of mileage runs - whether theoretical, practical, or otherwise - be done in the other thread?
Mileage run suggestions please
Thanks!
Mileage run suggestions please
Thanks!