Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#1756
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,737
The process is certainly easier - you know instantly at the time of booking whether you can book the award, or not; and when you are hunting for J award space, you can usually be a bit flexible and move around your dates/times (as I often have done).
But if you want to upgrade, does that mean you do this type of research first, only then buying the economy ticket, and then immediately upgrading? Or do you just buy the economy ticket that best suits you, and only then - or later - pray that an upgrade will be possible?
[Of course, if you are travelling on tickets bought and paid for by third parties, upgrading is a useful facility. However, I get the impression you are a price-conscious buyer of your own tickets, as am I]
Last edited by irishguy28; Jun 13, 2018 at 2:55 am
#1758
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: AF/KL FB Plat ; A3 Gold ; HH Gold ; IHG Plat Amb
Posts: 2,378
Upgrading from W to J with miles was quite decently priced and on top you earn lots of miles for the original booking class especially as platinum, so in case the different between W and J cash is high but award J was available, you could book PE and fly J for little miles extra, you were just giving up on award miles for the flights but could still get qualifying miles. Remember that taxes and fuel surcharge need to be paid on top of the J award ticket, making the PE+upgrade quite a good deal as long as FB planets were aligned.
#1759
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,737
I'm not saying there's no sweet spots - but wouldn't it in most cases have been better to travel on KL (with no intermediate "PE" (W?) cabin to make it ultimately far more expensive to upgrade to C) and get to C from a cheaper cabin/ticket [M->C] for not much more than the W->C requirement on AF?
In short; upgrading to M on AF was more expensive, because you had to go via the intermediate "rung" of the W cabin. I don't believe that KL's upgrade pricing factored in this (for KL, non-existent) cabin in the upgrade pricing.
In short; upgrading to M on AF was more expensive, because you had to go via the intermediate "rung" of the W cabin. I don't believe that KL's upgrade pricing factored in this (for KL, non-existent) cabin in the upgrade pricing.
#1760
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
I have never considered using FB miles for upgrades a good use of points; isn't it nearly always better to redeem outright into the desired cabin?
The process is certainly easier - you know instantly at the time of booking whether you can book the award, or not; and when you are hunting for J award space, you can usually be a bit flexible and move around your dates/times (as I often have done).
But if you want to upgrade, does that mean you do this type of research first, only then buying the economy ticket, and then immediately upgrading? Or do you just buy the economy ticket that best suits you, and only then - or later - pray that an upgrade will be possible?
[Of course, if you are travelling on tickets bought and paid for by third parties, upgrading is a useful facility. However, I get the impression you are a price-conscious buyer of your own tickets, as am I]
The process is certainly easier - you know instantly at the time of booking whether you can book the award, or not; and when you are hunting for J award space, you can usually be a bit flexible and move around your dates/times (as I often have done).
But if you want to upgrade, does that mean you do this type of research first, only then buying the economy ticket, and then immediately upgrading? Or do you just buy the economy ticket that best suits you, and only then - or later - pray that an upgrade will be possible?
[Of course, if you are travelling on tickets bought and paid for by third parties, upgrading is a useful facility. However, I get the impression you are a price-conscious buyer of your own tickets, as am I]
#1761
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: AMS
Programs: Hilton Diamond, FB Plat
Posts: 312
#1762
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, JetBlue Mosaic, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska MVP Gold.
Posts: 1,962
Upgrading to J used to be reasonably priced, especially from W (see for instance https://thepointsguy.com/reviews/air...emium-economy/). Before being promoted to Ultimate, I would check availability on the DOD at the airport, and cough up the required amount of miles plus copay. I would, however, often be answered that other PAXs had been quicker and bought the last available seats of the J cabin. Things improved significantly with the TA service and the benefit of arranging beforehand upgrades over the phone or by e-mail, pending of course approval of Revenue Management, usually eager to wait until the last minute to sell its most expensive seats. Now, you probably have a better idea how getting a fraction of the miles I used to accrue before April 1st does impact me.
#1763
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Europe
Programs: Flying Blue: Platinum for Life Elite Plus - EuroBonus: Gold
Posts: 933
Dear all,
I have a question about the consecutive 10 year rule. I got into platinum in May 2010. Does this mean that if this year I get 300XP, I would be guaranteed Platinum until March 2020, and if in the year of 2019 I get another 300 XP, I am safe for getting Platinum for life?
Sincerely,
SB
I have a question about the consecutive 10 year rule. I got into platinum in May 2010. Does this mean that if this year I get 300XP, I would be guaranteed Platinum until March 2020, and if in the year of 2019 I get another 300 XP, I am safe for getting Platinum for life?
Sincerely,
SB
#1764
Join Date: May 2010
Location: ̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|
Programs: ❶❷ ใจ ± ♪♪♪ 7¾³ © ™
Posts: 761
Dear all,
I have a question about the consecutive 10 year rule. I got into platinum in May 2010. Does this mean that if this year I get 300XP, I would be guaranteed Platinum until March 2020, and if in the year of 2019 I get another 300 XP, I am safe for getting Platinum for life?
Sincerely,
SB
I have a question about the consecutive 10 year rule. I got into platinum in May 2010. Does this mean that if this year I get 300XP, I would be guaranteed Platinum until March 2020, and if in the year of 2019 I get another 300 XP, I am safe for getting Platinum for life?
Sincerely,
SB
I don't know the answer but I would expect you to be PL in May 2020, I am on my way toward PL too so I am interested to know.
.
#1766
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,927
About the glitches we have reported about a month ago for miles earnings in the apps/websites for coming trips, how are you standing so far ? In my case :
- AF systems : I still have the same bug with number of miles to be earned which is half the correct one
- KL systems : they used to display the correct number of miles to be earned, but not anymore. I just noticed that, for long haul, they don't take the YQ tax into account in the calculation.
And my UXP counter, which has disappeared beginning of may, is still not back. Excel is still my best friend
- AF systems : I still have the same bug with number of miles to be earned which is half the correct one
- KL systems : they used to display the correct number of miles to be earned, but not anymore. I just noticed that, for long haul, they don't take the YQ tax into account in the calculation.
And my UXP counter, which has disappeared beginning of may, is still not back. Excel is still my best friend
#1767
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Switzerland
Programs: AFKL Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador Elite
Posts: 369
About the glitches we have reported about a month ago for miles earnings in the apps/websites for coming trips, how are you standing so far ? In my case :
- AF systems : I still have the same bug with number of miles to be earned which is half the correct one
- KL systems : they used to display the correct number of miles to be earned, but not anymore. I just noticed that, for long haul, they don't take the YQ tax into account in the calculation.
And my UXP counter, which has disappeared beginning of may, is still not back. Excel is still my best friend
- AF systems : I still have the same bug with number of miles to be earned which is half the correct one
- KL systems : they used to display the correct number of miles to be earned, but not anymore. I just noticed that, for long haul, they don't take the YQ tax into account in the calculation.
And my UXP counter, which has disappeared beginning of may, is still not back. Excel is still my best friend
On a side note.... The last time I went to the KL crown lounge (yesterday) I asked the FB assistant if she could calculate the XP/miles for a flight that wasn't showing *anything* on any mobile app or website... strangely because it was a KL ticket with all KL/AF codeshares, just with a weird set of connections. For some reasons she could calculate everything well apart from the last segment that wasn't showing up, a CDG-BSL AF flight operated by HOP!. The app she had on her terminal was relatively nice - for each segment she could see the XP earning and the miles component, exactly as it normally appears on the profile page after credit has been done. The computation she had was indeed correct, taking into account the YQ tax correctly (the flight is a ZRH-AMS-CDG-SGN-BKK-AMS-CDG-BSL ;-)
PS: Never try to ask something similar in AF lounges - they seem to be extremely bored by such questions, especially in 2F lounges.
#1768
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: United Kingdom
Programs: Bonvoy LTTitanium, BAEC Silver
Posts: 591
Hey guys, currently on 183 XP and so have secured Gold for a year from April 2019. I only fly short haul within Europe and I'm wondering if it's really worth going for Platinum if the only main additional benefit is free economy comfort seats, which are not always available? Would probably cost me a few hundred EUR to get Platinum. Or maybe I should just settle for Gold given that it includes SP benefits including lounge access and fast track through security which I value most?
#1769
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 760
Hey guys, currently on 183 XP and so have secured Gold for a year from April 2019. I only fly short haul within Europe and I'm wondering if it's really worth going for Platinum if the only main additional benefit is free economy comfort seats, which are not always available? Would probably cost me a few hundred EUR to get Platinum. Or maybe I should just settle for Gold given that it includes SP benefits including lounge access and fast track through security which I value most?
You also can call the platinum service line which I appreciate. But with KL/AF/DL being on social media, you are not helplesss without.
#1770
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
Yes. I think that the new system does not like CDG-BSL. Prior to the change, even though it is a one-class flight, you would get business class mileage (award and level) as an international flight between France and Switzerland if it was part of a business class ticket and booked in a business class inventory class (whereas the ORY-MLH flights would be treated as domestic one-class only even though the destination airport is in fact the same). With the new system, the calculator seems to treat CDG-BSL in the same way as ORY-MLH, viz. domestic economy only. Let us hope that it does get credited properly as international and business (where appropriate). I have a couple of these in July so will report back if nobody else does before that.