Stranger

The Brazilians have not been releasing gender information for bodies found. So far they have however released gender information for bodies identified.

And BTW, I find the way the Brazilians have handled this to be much more professional than French organizations or authorities. Starting with the BEA guy who complained about their pathologist not being given access to the process. Apparently unaware of the procedure, that French legal authorities OTOH had no difficulty with. One has to wonder how professional the BEA is.

you tell me where the 3d world is in this context.

blairvanhorn

Actually, the BEA has a very good reputation in France. You are making some very broad generalizations about a case in which very little information has actually been released.

I'll withhold judgement for a while, but I would never compare any French government entity, especially one involved in technical matters such as the BEA, to the "3d world" (whatever that means, by the way).

This is obviously a very complex investigation made even more difficult by the involvement of two different countries: France, a highly centralized, technocratic state and Brazil, with a federal structure that adds more players to the mix. It is inevitable that there will be some crossed wires nad mixed signals throughout the investigation.

IAN-UK

??

blairvanhorn

Interesting article in the CS Monitor:

Stranger

I was talking about a very specific issue, their pathologist missing from the process because apparently they did not bother having her registered properly. No generalization, specifics.

And BTW, you read all sorts of horrible comments *coming from France* about the BEA. For better or for worse. Not sure what to make of these.

JOUY31

OK, let's please put a stop to any Brazilian vs French controversy. Thanks for your understanding.

Jouy31
AF/KL co-moderator

Guava

steward is an "anglicisme", meaning an English word used in French. The proper French term for a FA really is "agent de bord" but I don't think AF uses it that much.

See a discussion here: What's flight attendant in French?

Often, an airline would use the default, masculine form to talk about a FA, ex: un agent de bord, even though the cabin may consist only of female FAs. That's why I am hesitating to take that single citation as a definitive proof or statement that the body of the FA in question is male. It may well be but unless the report has positively identified the body as being male, let's try not to read too much from the use of a masculine gender term that may well be a usage by default.

blairvanhorn

It was a male flight attendant:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090625/...u/brazil_plane

AF uses the terms "hôtesses" for female FAs and "stewards" for male FAs; the official AF term is "personnel navigant commercial" (PNC) which is why you always hear the announcements on board AF flights refer to "PNC" for safety checks, take off and landing advisories, etc.

Stranger

My impression is that "agent de bord" is an AC and/or quebec thing. That probably when they became politically correct and replaced "air hostess" in English they translated "flight attendant" by "agent de bord."

OTOH, from the press release it seems AF uses "steward" for male FAs in French, which is a generally accepted anglicism. I cannot imagine however that they would use the female English form for females, which is not.

Guava

Sorry, the AP article published through Yahoo you posted is reading more than what AF actually said:

Here is the actual AF press release in French:

http://alphasite.airfrance.com/fr/s01/press-releases/

"Parmi les victimes retrouvées grâce aux recherches en mer, deux membres de l'équipage du vol AF 447 ont à ce jour été identifiés : le commandant de bord ainsi qu'un steward."

The way your linked article translated what AF said, I think they are jumping to the conclusion on the basis that AF used "un steward", nothing more. Yet, the way AF has been handling the release of information, which is fairly much controled and neutral, I wouldn't take it as a confirmation of the gender of the FA.

Here is another English news report of the same quote but with different interpretation:

http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/archives/172241.asp

Medical examiners have identified the body of the captain of Air France Flight 447 and a flight attendant, Air France said Thursday.

You see? Besides, I recall there was only one male FA on board, a Brazilian FA who spoke 5 languages. If the body identified is male, then it can only be him then. That would have been way too easy to identify that person, in the same way that we know there is only one Captain even though AF, again, did not tell us who the Captain was. The name was provided by a 3rd party source, the pilot union. I just don't see AF releasing information on those bodies through the use of "un steward". AF is in a mood of strcitly controlling what they are releasing, hence, they wouldn't even give you the name of the Captain. Therefore, I failed to see why they would want to publicly identify the gender of the FA since it served them no purposes and it would only invite other 3rd parties to dig deeper, for what?

I just want to caution against jumping to conclusions prematurely, that's all I am saying.

JOUY31

I would say Air France and French people in general would never use "un steward" except for a male flight attendant. It is either "un steward" or "une hotesse (de l'air)". When written originally in French (not translated from another language) "un steward" is definitely not gender-neutral. No idea how it applies in this case.

blairvanhorn

Well, perhaps.

But as I posted above, AF generally refers to male FAs as stewards and female FA as hôtesses; the generic term is PNC which is what they probably would have used in their press release had they not wanted to divulge the gender of the flight attendant.

blairvanhorn

Agree.

Stranger

Ditto.

Stranger

Now confirmed the FA whose body has been identified was Lucas Gagliano:

http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Mundo/0...8-5602,00.html

However from the article it's not clear whether he was on duty or merely a passenger. He lived in France and had traveled to Brazil to attend his father's funeral.