AF flight from Rio missing [merged]
Feb 23, 2010, 10:22 pm
#976
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Feb 23, 2010, 11:01 pm
#977
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in a situation like this, with the aircraft falling down without respite, even few seconds would have been like an ethernity to all passengers, imagine 4 minutes of unhindered fall. The sole thought of it still chills my bones.
I do hope finally the black boxes will be recovered and their content will shed light to this tragedy, it is the absolute minimum all these unfortunate passengers are owing.
I do hope finally the black boxes will be recovered and their content will shed light to this tragedy, it is the absolute minimum all these unfortunate passengers are owing.
Feb 24, 2010, 2:40 am
#978
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I'm going to attempt to translate some of it, but keep in mind that my German comes from being a soccer fan.
The illustration suggests that the plane was flying through horrid weather with bad turbulence at 10,700 meters (approximately 36,000 feet). Ice got into the pitot tubes under the cockpit, the plane slowed down drastically, and tons of warnings sounded in the cockpit. The autopilot turned off, as well as something else I can't translate, and the flight computer switched into Alternate Law 2. Then the pilot lost control and the plane went into "Deep Stall." The plane likely fell at 2500 meters (approximately 8200 feet) per minute toward the ocean surface. The pilots tried to restart the flight computer and gain height, but the GPWS sounded, "Terrain, Terrain, Pull Up, Pull Up!" at 600 meters (approx. 1970 feet) above sea level.
The still-intact plane hit the water at 36 Gs (!) with the cockpit end raised five degrees. The rudder detached itself and flew forward.
My apologies if this is a bad translation or unwanted.
The illustration suggests that the plane was flying through horrid weather with bad turbulence at 10,700 meters (approximately 36,000 feet). Ice got into the pitot tubes under the cockpit, the plane slowed down drastically, and tons of warnings sounded in the cockpit. The autopilot turned off, as well as something else I can't translate, and the flight computer switched into Alternate Law 2. Then the pilot lost control and the plane went into "Deep Stall." The plane likely fell at 2500 meters (approximately 8200 feet) per minute toward the ocean surface. The pilots tried to restart the flight computer and gain height, but the GPWS sounded, "Terrain, Terrain, Pull Up, Pull Up!" at 600 meters (approx. 1970 feet) above sea level.
The still-intact plane hit the water at 36 Gs (!) with the cockpit end raised five degrees. The rudder detached itself and flew forward.
My apologies if this is a bad translation or unwanted.
Feb 24, 2010, 3:04 am
#979
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Feb 24, 2010, 3:17 am
#980
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Feb 24, 2010, 5:11 am
#981
Join Date: Sep 2009
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not exactly what is stated there.
It reads that they found the captain's body so that they assume him not seated with fasten belts which indicates he was not flying the plane but resting. They state that AF policy is that the second officer takes the captains seat so the less experienced pilot was flying the plane in that situation.
Cheers, Tjobbe
It reads that they found the captain's body so that they assume him not seated with fasten belts which indicates he was not flying the plane but resting. They state that AF policy is that the second officer takes the captains seat so the less experienced pilot was flying the plane in that situation.
Cheers, Tjobbe
Feb 24, 2010, 5:24 am
#982
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not exactly what is stated there.
It reads that they found the captain's body so that they assume him not seated with fasten belts which indicates he was not flying the plane but resting. They state that AF policy is that the second officer takes the captains seat so the less experienced pilot was flying the plane in that situation.
Cheers, Tjobbe
It reads that they found the captain's body so that they assume him not seated with fasten belts which indicates he was not flying the plane but resting. They state that AF policy is that the second officer takes the captains seat so the less experienced pilot was flying the plane in that situation.
Cheers, Tjobbe
I hope somehow they locate the black boxes and clear the mystery that surrounds this flight. Such a tragedy for the families to just not know, and for the flying public to not be sure the issues were truly resolved.
Feb 24, 2010, 5:56 am
#983
Join Date: Sep 2009
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yes, that is what the article as well states but what scares me most is at the end where it points back to Airbus and the fly by wire technology that totally depends on the accuracy of the information received by the Pitot's to calculate the state the plane is in.
It states that on 3rd Decembers Airbus filed a patent for an improved Pitot explaining that the loss of them can have severe consequences as well as pointing out that Airbus since years offers an extra equipment that in case the Pitot's stop working an alternate devise (BUSS) is alerting the pilot on how to get back the plane to the right speed and keep it stable.. it ends with the statement that AF has not ordered that.
I wonder which Airline operating Airbus has ordered them....
Cheers, Tjobbe
EDI: forgot to say that the price of that extra safety equipment Airbus offers is 300k€ per plane as mentioned by DER SPIEGEL
It states that on 3rd Decembers Airbus filed a patent for an improved Pitot explaining that the loss of them can have severe consequences as well as pointing out that Airbus since years offers an extra equipment that in case the Pitot's stop working an alternate devise (BUSS) is alerting the pilot on how to get back the plane to the right speed and keep it stable.. it ends with the statement that AF has not ordered that.
I wonder which Airline operating Airbus has ordered them....
Cheers, Tjobbe
EDI: forgot to say that the price of that extra safety equipment Airbus offers is 300k€ per plane as mentioned by DER SPIEGEL
Feb 24, 2010, 9:11 pm
#984
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In my opinion as a non-pilot SLF, just from what I have read, the pilots would have needed a miracle to retain control of ANY jet aircraft once they ran straight into the thunderstorm. IMHO the pitot and FBW issues are a distraction. The error was earlier, when they failed to deviate. The reasons for that error will remain a mystery unless the recorders are recovered.
Feb 24, 2010, 9:24 pm
#985
Join Date: Feb 2007
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in a situation like this, with the aircraft falling down without respite, even few seconds would have been like an ethernity to all passengers, imagine 4 minutes of unhindered fall. The sole thought of it still chills my bones.
I do hope finally the black boxes will be recovered and their content will shed light to this tragedy, it is the absolute minimum all these unfortunate passengers are owing.
I do hope finally the black boxes will be recovered and their content will shed light to this tragedy, it is the absolute minimum all these unfortunate passengers are owing.
Feb 25, 2010, 4:54 pm
#988
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...According to this scenario, the pilots would have been forced to watch helplessly as their plane lost its lift. That theory is supported by the fact that the airplane remained intact to the very end. Given all the turbulence, it is therefore possible that the passengers remained oblivious to what was happening. After all, the oxygen masks that have been recovered had not dropped down from the ceiling because of a loss of pressure. What's more, the stewardesses weren't sitting on their emergency seats, and the lifejackets remained untouched. "There is no evidence whatsoever that the passengers in the cabin had been prepared for an emergency landing," says BEA boss Jean-Paul Troadec....
If true it would mean that due to the buffeting effects of the turbulence no-one outside of the flight deck crew would have known the aircraft was in deep trouble - the aircraft would have been falling in a stable manner and the combination of the turbulence and the fact that it was night time would have meant that the pax had insufficient sensory information to tell them the the plane was rapidly descending ... I really hope that this was the case .