stimpy

It sometimes depends on the route. I haven't flown either AF or BA to HKG in a long time, but I do fly them on other routes. Lately AF FC has been every bit as good as BA FC. The new AF seats are wonderful and service on overnight flights has been great.

brunos

I also face the choice of flying F out of HKG to CDG. Not surprisingly CX does no discount out of its home base, just like AF does not out of CDG. So you might consider buying CX tickets in Paris, where they get decent deals. Since you seem to be willing to make one transfer, you should seriously consider flying on TG to LHR. Prices out of HKG are great ( 3200 in P), and seats and service are fabulous. Real F product between HKG and BKK with an excellent lounge in HKG. And then excellent F product BKK-Europe. Good lounge in BBK (now)

I avoid AF on HKG-CDG because:
1) their product is not an F product but a C product as outlined above, with a F seat .
2) many 777-200 used on the route are still not retrofitted, getting an "old" plane is still a distinct and random probability
3) even if you get a new plane there is a chance that the seat will be broken and/or the AVOD not working.

As everyone in Asia avoids AF FC, you have no problem of booking a F seat on AF as award and upgraded pax are basically the only to fly in F.

AshleyB

The bottom line is AF should either get rid of first altogether or take it seriously. Right now they are taking the p***. BA and LH for all their faults offer a product that is materially different from their J. AF first is a tarted up J. Between France and the US (JFK, LAX) first makes money and is rarely discounted. In Asia the only way to sell it is to discount. Everybody is cutting back but AF started off with a lot less fat on the bone so their cuts really show. The problem of staff tucking everyone in 5 minutes after departure is a bore, especially if one is not on the originating timezone. AF crew have always been THE best reason to fly AF. Lately though I have noticed subtle changes for the worse. No doubt it is management!

brunos

To be fair, AF policy on F has been clear for some time. When they introduced L'ESPACE concept many years ago, they made it clear that Espace 127 and 180 would be similar except for the seat. After a few years they decided to improve Espace 180 a bit (better food) and advertised it again as a F product. Then they cut down again. Except for the seat, and that is an important aspect (although it is often broken), there is little of the "First class experience" that can be lived on other Asian airlines and some European airlines. But I think that it is a clear policy choice by AF. I agree with AshleyB that keeping F is a mistake that damages AF image.

B-HQC

Actually I don't choose to connect, my final destinations are usually secondary cities which don't have nonstop service. Flying TG would mean 2 connections.

B-HQC

Actually, if your final destination is not CDG, there is a HKD 2,000 discount. Isn't that weird? This and the customary TA rebate (half of their commission) pushes the net fare to under 42,000.

HB-IWC

OK, I was basing my numbers on what the AF website is quoting me for HKG CDG MAD, a route I flew a while ago, and that comes to HKD 44,520 plus taxes. Do you happen to know whether it is possible to squeeze an additional European destination in there? Or is this fare restricting the number of possible transfers?

HB-IWC

But now they clearly call it L'Espace Premiere, and, at least for my last couple of experiences, it didn't very much feel like Premiere, although truth be told, my flights were all late evening departures with a shortened dinner service.

Mennix

My last AF F-flight was to JNB. Both directions a overnight flight. The service was great. Food was only upgradet C-Class. But - and for me this is the most important - the seat was absolutely First Class. Better than most other in the industry ( I did LX, LH and MH before ). Didn't sleep better at any other airline.

Let's see what the daylight service to LAX will be on March 30th.

HB-IWC

... yet when one pays for F, one shouldn't be receiving an upgraded C meal product, and one should expect dedicated F lounges and overall ground services including during boarding and deplaning. I agree with you that the Air France new F-seat is very comfortable, and that is of course a very important aspect of the F experience, yet it is not the only one, as AF seems to believe. Having recently flown NH (B744) and EY (A345) First, I really believe that there is no comparison between what these airlines offer and AF's current F product.

AshleyB

As Mennix notes first on AF is just J with a good seat. Perhaps they should do what KE does on routes where they dont offer F but operate a plane which has the seats - offer them to fullfare passengers and top-tier ffs. At any rate AF does not presently offer a real first class worthy of the name, either on the ground or in the air. As others step up their game AF slips down.

Mennix

As a FB Plat ( later this year I will be lifetime ) I would love this idea

stimpy

Let's take a step back. AF used to do exactly that on routes such as CDG-BOM. They had the old F seats which were certainly nicer than the biz seats, and they allowed Platinum members booking business class to request those seats in advance. They did not charge any F price for them. They did not have a special F crew serving those seats. That was fine.

But now they have the very nice new F seats on this route, with a dedicated F crew serving you, making your bed for you, giving you Christian LaCroix jammies, serving you nicer Champagne and food than in biz class, and you want it for free? In my experience, at least going from BOM to Europe or Asia, there is no finer F class service. BA is just as good albeit in different ways, but not better.

Klm is Dead - Long Live KLM

As someone who flies Business but almost never First I am not sure what the specifics are that the people posting are missing from the AF experience...

What do the other airlines do so well to make the whole experience so much better, special or memorable and how could AF better them?

HB-IWC

To name just a few:

* a dedicated and more personalized check in experience ;

* expedited process of immigration and security checks, possibly assisted by dedicated ground staff ;

* dedicated First Class lounges offering an upgraded product compared to the Business Class lounges, with expanded F&B options, private rooms, shower and spa offerings etc ;

* personalized and individual boarding process, direct to the aircraft, especially for remote stands ;

* expanded and on demand meal services, no shortcuts for late evening departures. First passengers should at all times be able to have a full meal or opt for a reduced service ;

* an overall expanded variety of meal options with a choice of at least 4 main courses and room for improvisation so as to accommodate special requests ;

* expanded IFE options (this remark also goes for the current AF business product though) ;

* upon arrival the same kind of personal assistance for such issues as immigration and connections ;

* dedicated First lounges for those outstations where F service is offered ;