rangerss75

I strongly advise you to change your flight from LHR. I don't know why AF continues to sell flights with such ridiculous connections. Take the 19h15 flight from LHR and spend any extra connecting time in the lounge.

I've just booked flights from LHR to LAX (because the Z Business Class fares are about 600 Euros lower than from CDG and I need to be in LHR before and after my CDG-LAX trip anyway) and, because I'm in Paris and the journey begins in London, I had to book over the phone. I pointed out to the agent that the connections she (though it's the AF computer that is responsible) was proposing are just not doable at CDG (40 minutes between a route where flights are notoriously late and always finish with a bus journey and a flight to the USA in these security-conscious times!!!) Air France should really stop selling such flights. They are simply piling up trouble for themselves when the passenger (and/or the lugggage) misses his or her connecting flight. I insisted on booking a flight an hour earlier.

blairvanhorn

How very, very sad!

Belgian in Paris

TX for your advice but I can't leave LHR in an other flight and be early at LHR. Wait an see... if my flight from LHR is late I suppose that the luggage will not make it. One more time that will cost a few hunderd $$$ (clothes) to American Express insurance and their partner. HKG is the perfect place for make to mesure shirts...

JOUY31

Well, I did something quite similar when arriving at SIN ...

brunos

One cynic could suggest that this is primarily an announcement effect to sweeten the removal of dedicated F lounges throughout AF network.

JOUY31

Well, this was never really a public announcement by AF, as mentioned by chrissxb in his original post. But AF representatives were kind enough to share some of their goals during lunch with several FTers, without committing themselves to a firm date.

In any case, it is unlikely IMHO that the 2C and 2F2 First Class lounge ever re-open as such: sometime in 2007, early 2008, when the 2E/2F/S3 combination is put into operation, 2F2 could become a Schengen peninsula, just as 2F1, and AF could possibly move all its long-haul flights currently using 2C.

NRT and JFK are another issue altogether. Has anyone been recently to the AF lounge(s) in NRT, especially the First Class lounge with a separate entrance on the higher floor ?

G_G

In lax the F lounge for AF Travelers is the New Zealand Airlines Lounge

B-HQC

Any news on the possible introduction of these facilities for F passengers? I am seriously considering moving my Europe flight bookings to AF due to a magnitude of reasons and this would definitely push me over the fence.

I routinely fly 2-3 r/ts a year to Europe (but never to CDG) on CX or BA, in J. When I have a specific engagement in Europe (this is a once a year occurrence on average, but is not guaranteed) could go up to weekly r/ts or more (one night stays). Last year I did 6 trips in August working my butt of to close a deal (A F seat would have helped).

CX service on the LHR route has become a wreck recently thanks to the LHR base, and BA bean counters have gone so overboard that I feel they do not care about their premium customers anymore.

To be honest the only reason I am considering AF is price. The pricing situation ex HKG to Europe looks like this:

BA & CX I - 26,000 - 32,000 HKD (extreme lack of availability)
AF F - 42,000 HKD (refundable and available year round!!!)
CX C / BA D - 44,000+ HKD
BA A - 45,000 HKD (non refundable)
CX F – astronomical

I have excluded airlines that don’t have (or don’t plan to have within this year) full flat beds or airlines that don’t have a European network (VS). That leaves BA and CX in J, and AF’s discounted F within my price range.

If I was just looking at the seat, the choice you be clear.

However, there are other things that come into the equation. I have been an OW flyer and an Emerald for many years. I like the Wing/Pier (F side) a lot and I like to be able to use lounges even when not flying the airline. None of these benefits are available with FB / ST, since they do not have an Emerald equivalent level. Benefits of FB Plat are pretty much the same as OW Sapphire benefits.

Unfortunately, while the F inflight product seems to be of a high standard, I am let down my AF's ground services. It is pretty unacceptable to only have mushy sandwiches in a lounge for F pax (CDG), don't you think? AF lounges at CDG are the worst lounges I have ever seen operated by a major airline on their home turf. It also seems everyone in CDG is on a mission to upset passengers; in general the rudeness is unbelievable. While there is no BAA madness the above deficiencies along with frequent lack of a jet bridge currently put CDG on par with LHR in terms of passenger unfriendliness. As transit passengers, the hub airport is important factor.

If they fix CDG (at least the lounges) but a car transfer service would be nice, I would be willing to ditch OW and move my business completely to AF and Skyteam. I am sure many of my colleagues would do the same as well. In general, ST airlines are just so much cheaper; allowing me to either fly in F for a J price or to shave a bit of my T&E budget.

stimpy

Wow, I had no idea AF F fares were so cheap ex-HKG. That would be a no-brainer for me no matter what the lounge is like. The service in the air is great in AF F class and I love the new seats.

The only advice I might give is to learn a bit of polite French. That goes a long way here. I haven't experienced any rude behavior by staff at CDG as long as I relax, smile and start off every conversation with "bon jour madame" and a few other choice words.

HB-IWC

Well, I think you would be in for an unpleasant surprise by changing to AF if you are used to the BA standards. AF's discounted F fares (F bucket) to Europe now price out at HKG 44,520 before taxes and surcharges, so not all that far away from BA's A-fares, although they are not refundable. Yet, the service difference couldn't be greater.

After a couple of AF F flights on SIN CDG SIN, I can honestly say that AF F isn't worth the extra money, for sure not during an overnight flight, where they come with the shortened service. I feel there is a total lack of grandeur in AF's F product, even in the air. AF's F product isn't anything more than a bit of an enhanced C product, which get even clearer when one compares the F and C menus. The F menu is merely an expanded C product with 75% of the meal and beverage options identical.

The ground services at CDG are indeed a problem, but then LHR has similar issues. But the BA First Lounge beats the crap out of any lounge concept that AF offers its F passengers any day of the week. No dedicated F lounges and a louzy lounge product overall, with overcrowded lounges during peak longhaul departure times.

All in all, given the option I would go for BA if I were you, and I'm not about to pay any longer for AF F service unless some serious changes, a la LH F-terminal in FRA and upgraded inflight product, take place.

AshleyB

Ex HKG there is no F lounge though they do reserve seats for F passengers with little signs bearing F seat numbers. Service wise it is no better than J class on most Asian airlines (esp the new SQ J which is considerably better than AF P). Some AF crew are even a little embarassed by it. At 42000 HKD though it is a very good value!! Crew are normally very good. The seat is comfortable though and at that price really unbeatable. Lounges at CDG are pretty terrible, especially if you are used to the Wing. 2C and 2A are the worst. 2E is nice.

chejus

First of all
For fllights to South America: GRU-SCL or EZE (Argentina) you must go to terminal 2F. Not only that, you must access the farthest gates, mainly 72-73-74-75.
Then, first class passengers are kindly invited to board..at the same time as everyone to a bus!! Yes, a big bus for everyone. Economy, Business, First.
And then, you arrive close to the airplane and guess what. The guy from AF leaves the bus, climbs the stairs and...stays in the plane..and we stay in the bus!!! All together now!! Freezing our ---es up! For 5, sometimes 10 minutes. Until they employee comes back, waves at the driver and then the doors open.
This happens EVERY DAY.
Boy, First Class Service to South America in AF really sucks.
And their business class? Seats are VERY old C class.

I hope they change something, people are turning to BA or IB for their great flat bed, specially in C.

JOUY31

If LHR is your final destination, I would try BA, although I am not thrilled with their onboard F offering, especially the catering (on which they have been spending far less than their competitors) and even more, with the time it takes to see your baggage arrive. If LHR is not your final destination, I would definitely steer away from BA. Anything, even CDG, is better now than LHR for connections. And disruptions to BA operations over the last three years have been worse than on AF.

HB-IWC

I hear you and I'm not a great fan of BA's catering either, but Air France's F offerings have also lost a lot of their former glamor. The overnight services from SIN offer now just 2 options of main course, which was in stark contrast to my connecting CGK SIN service where SQ - on a 1h30 flight - dished out 4 dinner options. To add insult to injury, the late dinner service on my last 2 SIN CDG flights was rushed, as if the flight attendants were only looking to put out the cabin lights as soon as possible.

I guess the overnight service from HKG will offer a similar catering service. The HKG daylight service may be better, though. Overall, it seems that all late night departures, including the entire longhaul overnight bank from CDG at 23.15, now offer an expedited dinner service. The AF SIN station manager told me that the reason was to offer extended sleep to the passengers and that passengers were expected to eat in the lounge before boarding the aircraft. While that may be fine - BA also offers pre flight dining - AF should make sure to offer real food options in its lounges, which, at least for SIN and apparently also fro HKG, is not the case. A day-old stale sandwich won't cut it for me.

Also the absence of dedicated F lounges irritates me. If an airline decides to go for a 3-class product, then they should go all the way with it and offer seperated lounge services as well. Are there still any dedicated F lounges remaining in the AF network?

JOUY31

I would definitely agree with you on the above issues. AF needs to improve its global P product.