Air France's strategic move away from Orly

Old Oct 25, 2023, 2:01 am
  #61  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,633
Originally Posted by orbitmic
Fair point so yes that’s an option. Having said that whilst I’m sure there is a customer base for this “pseudo ib at a much inflated price” it isn’t me (perhaps not helped by the fact my ffp is Ba so wouldn’t get TPs etc even if I booked the codeshare version). I also think I’d be gutted if I paid the premium and something went wrong as I think vy is one of the worst airlines I know for customer service and delays/cancellation management
Indeed, that IB/VY models works for IB+ members but not for other OW elites.
Same would probably applies to AF/TO for other ST programs.

And keeping an AF lounge at ORY just for that purpose???
orbitmic likes this.
brunos is offline  
Old Oct 25, 2023, 3:00 am
  #62  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,390
Originally Posted by brunos
And keeping an AF lounge at ORY just for that purpose???
I agree that this seems rather unlikely. One could see what has increasingly been the case with BA at a number of domestic outstations (eg: MAN, BHD), i.e. closing the airline's dedicated lounge and have the space taken over by an arms-length independent lounge operator.
orbitmic likes this.
NickB is offline  
Old Oct 25, 2023, 11:32 am
  #63  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,679
Agreed with all of you, I think that AF keeping a lounge at ORY is beyond unlikely, Transavia getting a lounge of their own even more so. At most, Transavia might decide to make an agreement with an airport operated lounge, but if they ever did that it would likely be to sell access as an ancillary rather than gift it to FB elite members. Having said that, the AF Patio lounge at ORY used for La Navette flights is already a rather minimal effort (I suspect DOM-TOM flights might get a much nicer one?)
NickB and joyu12 like this.
orbitmic is offline  
Old Oct 25, 2023, 12:33 pm
  #64  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Accor 25+ Badge
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 22,112
Originally Posted by orbitmic
Agreed with all of you, I think that AF keeping a lounge at ORY is beyond unlikely, Transavia getting a lounge of their own even more so. At most, Transavia might decide to make an agreement with an airport operated lounge, but if they ever did that it would likely be to sell access as an ancillary rather than gift it to FB elite members. Having said that, the AF Patio lounge at ORY used for La Navette flights is already a rather minimal effort (I suspect DOM-TOM flights might get a much nicer one?)
Patio lounges are long gone !!
Goldorak is offline  
Old Oct 25, 2023, 1:59 pm
  #65  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,842
On European airlines strategy regarding using various legal containers to get cost down on top of running a proper LCC, here is what Lufthansa does. You have to read the entire 3 pages to at least understand vaguely what they are doing. Its a bit anarchic

See this thread from Flyertalk
San Gottardo is offline  
Old Oct 25, 2023, 3:31 pm
  #66  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,679
Originally Posted by Goldorak
Patio lounges are long gone !!
Oh, thanks!!! I haven't actually flown from ORY for a while (though last time it was still a really poor lounge in hall 2 (somehow I assumed they still called them patio but that was just the assumption) - is it still the same one or have they replaced it by something decent by now!

Last edited by orbitmic; Oct 25, 2023 at 3:37 pm
orbitmic is offline  
Old Oct 25, 2023, 8:20 pm
  #67  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,633
Originally Posted by orbitmic
Oh, thanks!!! I haven't actually flown from ORY for a while (though last time it was still a really poor lounge in hall 2 (somehow I assumed they still called them patio but that was just the assumption) - is it still the same one or have they replaced it by something decent by now!
ORY has changed a lot since you flew.
I like it compared to CDG.
The AF lounge is quite decent.
orbitmic and Bullspread like this.
brunos is offline  
Old Oct 26, 2023, 1:57 am
  #68  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,842
There are two AF lounges at Orly. One in Schengen, which is a renovated version of the previous non-Schengen lounge, quite nice. And one non-Schengen, which is actually quite nice, on par with the better CDG lounges I'd say. The one that existed in the headhouse of the old Orly 2 no longer exists (or is not used by AF anymore), the entire setup of gates and access has changed a lot. In the very distant past there also was a little patio in Orly 1, but that is gone since a long time.
San Gottardo is offline  
Old Oct 26, 2023, 2:18 am
  #69  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,057
Originally Posted by San Gottardo
There are two AF lounges at Orly. One in Schengen, which is a renovated version of the previous non-Schengen lounge, quite nice. And one non-Schengen, which is actually quite nice, on par with the better CDG lounges I'd say. The one that existed in the headhouse of the old Orly 2 no longer exists (or is not used by AF anymore), the entire setup of gates and access has changed a lot. In the very distant past there also was a little patio in Orly 1, but that is gone since a long time.
For the sake of completeness, there is even a UTLI area within the lounge.
The lounge staff usually brings a very careful attitude towards ULTI PAX notably with pro active pre boarding monitoring .
Bullspread is offline  
Old Oct 26, 2023, 3:02 am
  #70  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,842
Originally Posted by Bullspread
For the sake of completeness, there is even a UTLI area within the lounge.
The lounge staff usually brings a very careful attitude towards ULTI PAX notably with pro active pre boarding monitoring .
Yep. There is a dedicated ULTI area in the Schengen lounge, to the left of the reception. In the non-Schengen lounge, I had a "private cabana", but not sure that is always roped off. In both lounges, someone usually comes and asks for drinks orders, or something from the buffet. The ULTI treatment has gotten significantly better over the years in Paris lounges.
orbitmic, Goldorak, joyu12 and 1 others like this.
San Gottardo is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2023, 12:11 pm
  #71  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: OSL / BIA
Programs: FB Platinum
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by orbitmic
Oh, thanks!!! I haven't actually flown from ORY for a while (though last time it was still a really poor lounge in hall 2 (somehow I assumed they still called them patio but that was just the assumption) - is it still the same one or have they replaced it by something decent by now!
Honestly since Orly 3 opened and AF moved from Hall 2 to what was the old non-Schengen Hall 3 (merged with hall 4) Orly got a lot more pleasant (i absolutely hated it before), its still not the best airport in the world but it feels like an easy to get through city airport, with AF/XK pretty much alone at the old hall 3/4 you almost never have huge security lines. Orly 3 is also pretty good in paxex and similar to what ADP are implementing when renovating terminals at CDG. Haven't tried the Orly 3 Non-Schengen lounge but the images look good!
San Gottardo, brunos and orbitmic like this.
joyu12 is offline  
Old Oct 28, 2023, 7:58 am
  #72  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,842
The ORY3 non-Schengen lounge is much much nicer than then Schengen one!

No more AF at ORY is a loss. I had hoped it would be an expansion rather than an exit. Bring back JFK, SXM, add more European routes. It has indeed become a pleasant place, more than just convenient for its proximity to Paris.
brunos and joyu12 like this.
San Gottardo is offline  
Old Oct 28, 2023, 9:02 am
  #73  
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 205
I think they should load the furniture of the ORY 3 lounge into big trucks and ship it to CDG hall K.

(Actually they should detach it fully from the ground, fly it with 100 helicopters and drop it on the hall K lounge.)


Such a shame. That lounge + the new COI cabins were an investment of 124 million euros. Knowing that each lounge in CDG cost was around 15 million I bet this one was near that.

For the curious : Like many things onboard,
this beautiful lounge was imagined by then Brandimage, now SGK.



(They also did the hall L and M, GVA and IAD lounges.)


Funny to think that only four years ago they were about to open GVA, MUC and MAD from ORY.
on.the.bowery is offline  
Old Nov 15, 2023, 7:29 am
  #74  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,842
Now we have the salad semi-informed politicians whose lack of understanding of the matter is surpassed only by their noisy grandstanding get involved, their (non-)actions being reported by semi-informed journalists.

Politicians saying that their region will be cut off from the world despite being one of Europes most important tourist destinations (forgetting that Transavia will fly to Orly instead and not grasping that to bring the rest of the world to the South of France the Orly line makes virtually zero contribution as pax use CDG to transfer), and calling for the government as owner (sic) to weigh in to change that decision. Sooo French. symbolism and pompous but empty headline phrases. Pathetic.

AFKL is a commercial enterprise that uses its resources where they can generate profits. If the ORY-MRS/NCE/TLS routes do not make enough profit and the resulting reduction in the offering really leads to cutting off those regions from the rest of the world, the politicians should lobby the government to put in place a PSO route. But that has nothing to do with which airline is serving it, and whether that goes from ORY or CDG.

At this stage, the only people losing out - and thus the only ones who should be complaining - are us with a frequent flyer status: we are now left with a choice between navigating a more distant and time-consuming alternative departure airport, CDG; or using a different airline, Transavia, where we no longer get offered the benefits linked to our status. For everybody else, nothing changes.
joyu12 and SkyteamEP like this.

Last edited by San Gottardo; Nov 15, 2023 at 8:54 am
San Gottardo is offline  
Old Nov 15, 2023, 7:31 am
  #75  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: PAR, TYO, SEL, SIN, SYD
Programs: AF/KLM Platinum Ultimate, VA Velocity Platinum, ALL Platinum
Posts: 717
Originally Posted by San Gottardo
Now we have the salad semi-informed politicians whose lack of understanding of the matter is surpassed only by their noisy grandstanding get involved, their (non-)actions being reported by semi-informed journalists. Politicians saying that their region will be cut off from the world despite being one of Europes most important tourist destinations (forgetting that Transavia will fly to Orly instead and not grasping that to bring the rest of the world to the South of France the Orly line makes virtually zero contribution as pax use CDG to transfer), and calling for the government as owner (sic) to weigh in to change that decision. Sooo French.
Seems to completely disregard the fact that if the flights get moved to CDG they actually will be connected to the world as opposed to connected to France
atflyer likes this.
Digicola is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.