Air France's strategic move away from Orly

Old Nov 15, 2023, 7:38 am
  #76  
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo
Now we have the salad… semi-informed politicians whose lack of understanding of the matter is surpassed only by their noisy grandstanding get involved, their (non-)actions being reported by semi-informed journalists. Politicians saying that their region will be cut off from the world despite being one of Europe’s most important tourist destinations (forgetting that Transavia will fly to Orly instead and not grasping that to bring the rest of the world to the South of France the Orly line makes virtually zero contribution as pax use CDG to transfer), and calling for the government as “owner” (sic) to weigh in to change that decision. Sooo French.
You are quite right, although I would disagree that the Orly line makes virtually zero contribution for the rest of the world.
I fly the ORY-NCE route quite often and there is a lot of foreign tourists, especially Asian. They would typically spend a few days in Paris and a few days in the NCE region.
If on the same ticket, then they would be diverted to CDG or Transavia would need to carry some AF code.
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Old Nov 15, 2023, 7:53 am
  #77  
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Originally Posted by brunos
You are quite right, although I would disagree that the Orly line makes virtually zero contribution for the rest of the world.
I fly the ORY-NCE route quite often and there is a lot of foreign tourists, especially Asian. They would typically spend a few days in Paris and a few days in the NCE region.
If on the same ticket, then they would be diverted to CDG or Transavia would need to carry some AF code.
If they are flying to NCE (or wherever else in France for that matter), what is the big deal with having a separate ticket?

And even they want a single ticket and the price to pay for that is that you have to fly from CDG rather than ORY, I sincerely doubt that it will make any meaningful difference. Are there really many foreign tourists that would fly to Paris and Nice using ORY for the PAR-NCE segment that would decide instead to avoid France (or forgo going to NCE) merely because AF no longer flies from ORY? I don't think so.
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Old Nov 15, 2023, 9:16 am
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Originally Posted by NickB
If they are flying to NCE (or wherever else in France for that matter), what is the big deal with having a separate ticket?

And even they want a single ticket and the price to pay for that is that you have to fly from CDG rather than ORY, I sincerely doubt that it will make any meaningful difference. Are there really many foreign tourists that would fly to Paris and Nice using ORY for the PAR-NCE segment that would decide instead to avoid France (or forgo going to NCE) merely because AF no longer flies from ORY? I don't think so.
Exactly. The tour bus of Asian tourists that arrives at the airport three hours before departure at ORY for the domestic flight will arrive 2h45 minutes before departure at CDG.
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Old Nov 15, 2023, 9:20 am
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Fun fact: the AF delegation is on their way back to Paris, same plane as me from MRS. Anne Marie Couderc in 1C, Anne Rigail in 4D.

Of course all the staff attention goes to them, not to me and the other C2000 ULTI with me on this flight. I think in a more customer-oriented airline the staff would show off how they are excellent with clients. At AF they brown nose the CEO and Chairwoman.
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Old Nov 15, 2023, 2:29 pm
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo
Fun fact: the AF delegation is on their way back to Paris, same plane as me from MRS. Anne Marie Couderc in 1C, Anne Rigail in 4D.

Of course all the staff attention goes to them, not to me and the other C2000 ULTI with me on this flight. I think in a more customer-oriented airline the staff would show off how they are excellent with clients. At AF they brown nose the CEO and Chairwoman.
That's the one status higher than Captains Wife, if you remember that bit of fun
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Old Nov 15, 2023, 5:52 pm
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Originally Posted by NickB
If they are flying to NCE (or wherever else in France for that matter), what is the big deal with having a separate ticket?

And even they want a single ticket and the price to pay for that is that you have to fly from CDG rather than ORY, I sincerely doubt that it will make any meaningful difference. Are there really many foreign tourists that would fly to Paris and Nice using ORY for the PAR-NCE segment that would decide instead to avoid France (or forgo going to NCE) merely because AF no longer flies from ORY? I don't think so.
All I was pointing out is that there is a huge number of longhaul tourists flying to NCE who stopover in Paris to visit Europe/France and currently use ORY. One should not only focus on those flying directly to/from NCE with transit in CDG.

Whether that will make any significant difference to them is indeed unlikely..Even though I find ORY much more convenient than CDG, they probably won't know the difference.

BTW: most of these travel individually, not in tour groups anymore.
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Old Nov 16, 2023, 4:03 am
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CDG is more convenient for individual tourist by virtue of train connection and/or being on the right bank. Most of "tourist" Paris is leftright bank. (ORY will gain a bit with the metro, but not enough.)

For organized tourist it's a wash. Coach takes them to the airport. For all they care it might as well be Le Bourget or Beauvais.

Last edited by Fabo.sk; Nov 16, 2023 at 8:31 am
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Old Nov 16, 2023, 1:19 pm
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Digicola
Seems to completely disregard the fact that if the flights get moved to CDG they actually will be connected to the world as opposed to connected to France
Meanwhile our politicians on Corsica thinks its more important that we are connected mostly to France (via ORY) and not the world (via CDG) when creating our PSO routes (yes I do bang on about it a lot although I like ORY I value my transfer options more)
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Old Nov 17, 2023, 11:46 am
  #84  
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo
Of course all the staff attention goes to them, not to me and the other C2000 ULTI with me on this flight. I think in a more customer-oriented airline the staff would show off how they are excellent with clients. At AF they brown nose the CEO and Chairwoman.
Well, having had the pleasure of being on BA with high level BA execs, I can confirm that BA would not meet your threshold as a customer-oriented airline either!
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Old Nov 17, 2023, 1:25 pm
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Originally Posted by orbitmic
Well, having had the pleasure of being on BA with high level BA execs, I can confirm that BA would not meet your threshold as a customer-oriented airline either!
Some time ago I was on an LH flight from ZRH to FRA, next to me was Harry Hohmeister, the CEO of all passenger airlines of the Lufthansa Group (Lufthansa, Swiss, Austrian, Brussels, Eurowings...). The crew ignored him and only looked after me, ran their "HON Circle protocol". There also was no airline staff expecting him in the jetway upon arrival, he didn't go to spend time chatting lengthily to the crew and keep them from taking care of passengers. That doesn't make Lufthansa a great or particularly customer-oriented airline, but it's a stark contrast with AF where the execs were brought to the plane by the station manager and another escort (the kind of Premiere/Hippo escort that they have in some airports), did a full handshake tour with the entire crew, took their seats in the first row (Hohmeister was in 5D), the CDC came to explain that they would re-seat any passenger that might have obtained the middle seat in that row, they got water bottles and asked whether they wanted anything else (I suppose on a flight that was fully stocked they would have been offered champagne or other goodies), and each crew member then spent time with them in long conversations.

I am not judging that. I understant and actually applaud that management spends time "on the shopfloor" and engages with staff. To what extent that should be to the detriment of paying customers is always a judgment call - they could just as well have spent some time with the crew after the flight or in the "idle" time during the descent. It's the contrast with the other flight on LH that I find interesting. At AF, colleagues are the real VIPs, especially when it's upper management.
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