Missing refund, now they've sent me a bill.
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: BCN
Programs: BA Gold · A3 Gold · DL Gold · VY apologist
Posts: 8,545
Missing refund, now they've sent me a bill.
Hello everyone, here's a question for the AF experts. I booked two flights in paid business class (D) BCN-NYC-DEN on DL through the AF website in 2021. We had to cancel due to Covid. At the time of cancelation they told me I would get a credit but could request a refund later. In August of 2022 I contacted the AF customer service in Spain and requested a refund. The agent told me it would be processed within 60 days(!) and gave me a confirmation number that I realized after I hung up was just the day's date.
The refund was never received. They did, however, recently send me an email with the subject "In response to your request for an invoice" containing only a PDF of an invoice with a line at the top that says "DUPLICATE CREDIT NOTE", lists the ticket number of the flights along with a zero ("0.00") price, and another line labeled "OTHER TAXES" in the total of 82€. At the bottom it says "TOTAL AMOUNT TO PAY 82€".
Anybody know what's going on here? If I were a cynic I would think they decided that the fare wouldn't be refunded and only returned some of the taxes. But we all know AF wouldn't do anything like that, so there must be another explanation. Where should I go from here?
I appreciate any helpful advice. Thanks.
The refund was never received. They did, however, recently send me an email with the subject "In response to your request for an invoice" containing only a PDF of an invoice with a line at the top that says "DUPLICATE CREDIT NOTE", lists the ticket number of the flights along with a zero ("0.00") price, and another line labeled "OTHER TAXES" in the total of 82€. At the bottom it says "TOTAL AMOUNT TO PAY 82€".
Anybody know what's going on here? If I were a cynic I would think they decided that the fare wouldn't be refunded and only returned some of the taxes. But we all know AF wouldn't do anything like that, so there must be another explanation. Where should I go from here?
I appreciate any helpful advice. Thanks.
#2
Join Date: Jun 2012
Programs: FB, M&B, UA, AA
Posts: 2,490
I booked two flights in paid business class (D) BCN-NYC-DEN on DL through the AF website in 2021. We had to cancel due to Covid. At the time of cancelation they told me I would get a credit but could request a refund later. In August of 2022 I contacted the AF customer service in Spain and requested a refund. The agent told me it would be processed within 60 days(!) and gave me a confirmation number that I realized after I hung up was just the day's date.
.
.
So, exact dates are important. If you think your claim for cash was within a year, contact customer service. If your voucher was cancelled after the 1 year limit, you are at the mercy of their goodwill. The 85 Euro charge could be since in their view you asked for a duplicate bill (it may be they charge for that, I do not know).
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,568
I did have a couple of these cancelled flights back then (2020/2021).
AF would issue a refundable voucher valid one year. Those vouchers appeared on the website, and could be used for other tickets or you could ask for their refund.
As mentioned by atflyer, it could be that your vouchers expired after a year and you lost the money.
The "invoice" is another story and probably some of the usual AF IT response/bug when you might have recently inquired about the status of the refund.
A bit surprised that you did not pursue the refund more actively since August 2022. That is probably too late now.
AF would issue a refundable voucher valid one year. Those vouchers appeared on the website, and could be used for other tickets or you could ask for their refund.
As mentioned by atflyer, it could be that your vouchers expired after a year and you lost the money.
The "invoice" is another story and probably some of the usual AF IT response/bug when you might have recently inquired about the status of the refund.
A bit surprised that you did not pursue the refund more actively since August 2022. That is probably too late now.
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,754
It wasn't required to call for a refund; if you had a refundable voucher, it should have been possible to request the refund online.
I had several of these and never needed to call to get any of them refunded. Some of them did, however, take months to be refunded.
To the OP: do you have an Air France/Flying Blue account? And did you have such an account at the time you originally made this booking?
when you log into the Air France website, and click on "My Bookings", you should see an option to view all vouchers issued to your account.
If you click on "View Vouchers", you should be presented with a list of all vouchers that were issued.
You will also see the expiry date, and the information regarding the use of the vouchers.
Here is the link to the FAQ.
I had several of these and never needed to call to get any of them refunded. Some of them did, however, take months to be refunded.
To the OP: do you have an Air France/Flying Blue account? And did you have such an account at the time you originally made this booking?
when you log into the Air France website, and click on "My Bookings", you should see an option to view all vouchers issued to your account.
If you click on "View Vouchers", you should be presented with a list of all vouchers that were issued.
You will also see the expiry date, and the information regarding the use of the vouchers.
Here is the link to the FAQ.
Last edited by irishguy28; Dec 12, 2023 at 1:24 am
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,754
even if you don't have an Air France/Flying Blue account, you should have received an email of the kind below, with your voucher included as a .pdf with details of how to use it.
Note that, unless your flight was actually cancelled by the airline, I don't think the voucher would have become refundable but would have had to have been redeemed on a new flight. If you voluntarily cancelled the ticket yourself, then the voucher would have lost its value 12 months after being issued if not used on the Air France website to book a new ticket.
Note that, unless your flight was actually cancelled by the airline, I don't think the voucher would have become refundable but would have had to have been redeemed on a new flight. If you voluntarily cancelled the ticket yourself, then the voucher would have lost its value 12 months after being issued if not used on the Air France website to book a new ticket.
#6
Join Date: Jun 2012
Programs: FB, M&B, UA, AA
Posts: 2,490
Note that, unless your flight was actually cancelled by the airline, I don't think the voucher would have become refundable but would have had to have been redeemed on a new flight. If you voluntarily cancelled the ticket yourself, then the voucher would have lost its value 12 months after being issued if not used on the Air France website to book a new ticket.
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: BCN
Programs: BA Gold · A3 Gold · DL Gold · VY apologist
Posts: 8,545
I should probably point out that these were DL flights purchased from the AF website with AF flight numbers.
Tickets bought in August of 2021 for flights in December 2021, canceled two days before due to Covid. For eight months the AF site showed a message that they were "processing" the refund and not to submit another request because it would only slow things down. That's why I called them. The first two calls both told me to call Delta, which I knew was not right. Finally got through to the agent who told me he had no record of a refund ever being requested but that he would submit it and it would likely take two months. The 80 Euro invoice was issued 60 days later.
This is several thousand Euros and I'm about out of patience, and really don't know where to turn.
Tickets bought in August of 2021 for flights in December 2021, canceled two days before due to Covid. For eight months the AF site showed a message that they were "processing" the refund and not to submit another request because it would only slow things down. That's why I called them. The first two calls both told me to call Delta, which I knew was not right. Finally got through to the agent who told me he had no record of a refund ever being requested but that he would submit it and it would likely take two months. The 80 Euro invoice was issued 60 days later.
This is several thousand Euros and I'm about out of patience, and really don't know where to turn.
#8
Join Date: Jun 2012
Programs: FB, M&B, UA, AA
Posts: 2,490
Wow. This likely implies you got vouchers dated December 2021. I guess refundable since bought in August 2021 and then the "refundable without questions asked" scheme was still in place. Formally, they expired in December 2022. Since bought via AF, indeed AF should help. I assume you do/did not have an FB account, otherwise you could have asked to convert the voucher into a refund via the FB site, but apparently you did manage to do something like this via the AF site. Do you have proof (e.g. screenshots) that you asked for this and they were processing it? The more hard proof you can show you were asking to convert the voucher into cash well in time before the 1 year limit, and the more you can prove AF was not taking action, the stronger your case. With all this I simply would go back to customer care but also file a complaint. Do everything in a way that is traceable. Phone calls are not.
It is incomparable in terms of stakes, but you are not alone banging your head to the wall with AF/KL refunds or compensations. For me in June 2022 3 flights on 3 different journeys were cancelled leading to 3 overnight stays which I had to pre-fund. Filing this with KL/AF is a nightmare - they asked for one case more information via e-mail (more detailed bills, say 150 Euro), I filed that around 4-5 times, up to two times for this case I got an automated email 'since you did not react, we are going to close your case number'. The problem there is the system gives 2 weeks to react, but the e-mailed answers have to be processed apparently manually and they do not manage to do this. It could be work overload, but I would not exclude a deliberate strategy to deny all such claims as long as possible in the hope that many give up.
Good luck & courage. It seems that is unfortunately needed when dealing with AF/KL customer care these days.
It is incomparable in terms of stakes, but you are not alone banging your head to the wall with AF/KL refunds or compensations. For me in June 2022 3 flights on 3 different journeys were cancelled leading to 3 overnight stays which I had to pre-fund. Filing this with KL/AF is a nightmare - they asked for one case more information via e-mail (more detailed bills, say 150 Euro), I filed that around 4-5 times, up to two times for this case I got an automated email 'since you did not react, we are going to close your case number'. The problem there is the system gives 2 weeks to react, but the e-mailed answers have to be processed apparently manually and they do not manage to do this. It could be work overload, but I would not exclude a deliberate strategy to deny all such claims as long as possible in the hope that many give up.
Good luck & courage. It seems that is unfortunately needed when dealing with AF/KL customer care these days.
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: BCN
Programs: BA Gold · A3 Gold · DL Gold · VY apologist
Posts: 8,545
I filed an official complaint and on Monday I'll contact the Spanish consumer affairs bureau and if necessary an attorney.
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,568
Yeah, not my first time to this party. Several years ago I had a similar situation and it took me two years to get the refund. In the end it only came through because (at the time) I was moderator of this forum and the FB lurker took pity on me and processed it himself on his last day before leaving the company. He said it was common for those things to lie in a tray for months or years and nobody would touch them.
I filed an official complaint and on Monday I'll contact the Spanish consumer affairs bureau and if necessary an attorney.
I filed an official complaint and on Monday I'll contact the Spanish consumer affairs bureau and if necessary an attorney.
I guess that this current incident will not make you change your appreciation of AF. Even if you might have been a bit negligent knowing how bad AF can be in those circumstances.