AF to discontinue Premium Economy on medium haul flights + other "improvements"
Nov 27, 2014, 12:06 am
#76
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So why didn't they mention it on the press statement released a few days ago. My 2 cents is that they don't really know what to do yet.
Last edited by olivedel; Nov 27, 2014 at 12:26 am
Nov 27, 2014, 12:26 am
#77
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I also note that the article would also seem to imply that there will now be a consistent policy for Abonnés fares, whether it is on a domestic or intra-European route, whereas in the past, the intra-European Abonnés fares were the same as the A fares, accessible to any customer, provided the ticket was bought early.
A321 : they want first to study carefully the future of this type in their MH fleet. If they keep them, I'm pretty confident they will retrofit them, but it will be after A319/A320. Note that most of the A321 have a more recent cabin interior than A319/320. For the A318, they should really do something as this plane is quite frequent from CDG.
Last edited by Goldorak; Nov 27, 2014 at 3:39 pm
Nov 27, 2014, 11:59 am
#78
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As a regular on CDG-ZRH-CDG I do actually like the non-reclinable seat: quite bearable for a one-hour flight, and my knees find it very useful on a full plane
Nov 27, 2014, 12:01 pm
#79
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Interesting debate on the use of Self Booking Tools - unfortunately, I too am ruled by these. Now most of my colleagues are quite habile at getting around the system to make sure we are on the flight we want, but the class is the class and on M/H it is economy for all 600,000 employees except the top 12 EVP's and the CEO (who has a G4 anyway).
Our problem is that the system we use - Concur (otherwise known as AXO - run by American Express, a not insignificant travel management company) will happily give the option to book C or W, it would be flagged for justification, but it is bookable (and career damaging...). HOWEVER, the real issue, is that for a given flight it will only give the cheapest price in a given cabin. i.e. Only one fare in Economy, the cheapest one, irrespective of luggage/flexibility/etc.
If Mini is available, the only way to avoid, or to guarantee flexibility, is to book another carrier... I don't think that is AF's objective.
When I look at myself, colleagues and friends, there are so many of us flying around on Mini fares, because that is what computer systems give us, even if those fares were not designed for us and we could book more expensive tickets without breaching corporate travel policies.
AF - IF YOU ARE READING THIS - please change Mini fares to require two/three weeks advance purchase!!!!! You would still be competitive with tourists and would not lose money unnecessarily to corporate travellers who need a little partial flexibility...
Now after reading through all of this complicated long thread there is still one crucial, vital subject close to all of our hearts that has not been discussed in depth except for two posts: What about the miles and the status contribution?
Over the past few years every change to AF's fare structure has resulted in fewer and fewer miles and fewer qualifying rate buckets - what will this do?
Our problem is that the system we use - Concur (otherwise known as AXO - run by American Express, a not insignificant travel management company) will happily give the option to book C or W, it would be flagged for justification, but it is bookable (and career damaging...). HOWEVER, the real issue, is that for a given flight it will only give the cheapest price in a given cabin. i.e. Only one fare in Economy, the cheapest one, irrespective of luggage/flexibility/etc.
If Mini is available, the only way to avoid, or to guarantee flexibility, is to book another carrier... I don't think that is AF's objective.
When I look at myself, colleagues and friends, there are so many of us flying around on Mini fares, because that is what computer systems give us, even if those fares were not designed for us and we could book more expensive tickets without breaching corporate travel policies.
AF - IF YOU ARE READING THIS - please change Mini fares to require two/three weeks advance purchase!!!!! You would still be competitive with tourists and would not lose money unnecessarily to corporate travellers who need a little partial flexibility...
Now after reading through all of this complicated long thread there is still one crucial, vital subject close to all of our hearts that has not been discussed in depth except for two posts: What about the miles and the status contribution?
Over the past few years every change to AF's fare structure has resulted in fewer and fewer miles and fewer qualifying rate buckets - what will this do?
Nov 27, 2014, 12:05 pm
#80
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Nov 27, 2014, 3:45 pm
#82
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There is also another important point, in link with this suppression of MH PE and introduction of Eco flex, that has not been discussed yet in this thread : lounge access rules. Eco Flex pax will not anymore have free access to the lounge in CDG and AMS, but will still be able to access it for a fee.
Nov 27, 2014, 9:45 pm
#83
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On your suggestion, however, I don't think that the earlier part would be true (about AF still being competitive with tourists). Ultimately, MiNi is "supposedly" intended to compete with low costs, and low costs tend to be affordable till the end. In fact, low cost offer cheap one ways till the end while AF already imposes a ridiculous 42 day advance purchase for one way MiNi fares!!
MiNi are nasty fares, and they are nasty regardless of the restrictions, but in effect, I mostly think that AF should restore some "classic" advantages to MiNi. For instance, MiNi fares could still be "Hand luggage only" but become changeable for a fee, and they could earn level miles and award miles even if they do not count as level segments. I suspect that this would make the blow less harsh on the self-booking tool victims...
Nov 27, 2014, 9:51 pm
#84
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Nov 28, 2014, 2:57 am
#85
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Our problem is that the system we use - Concur (otherwise known as AXO - run by American Express, a not insignificant travel management company) will happily give the option to book C or W, it would be flagged for justification, but it is bookable (and career damaging...). HOWEVER, the real issue, is that for a given flight it will only give the cheapest price in a given cabin. i.e. Only one fare in Economy, the cheapest one, irrespective of luggage/flexibility/etc.
If Mini is available, the only way to avoid, or to guarantee flexibility, is to book another carrier... I don't think that is AF's objective.
If Mini is available, the only way to avoid, or to guarantee flexibility, is to book another carrier... I don't think that is AF's objective.
Not sure empirically on low costs tending to be affordable until the end (IME, it is very far from uncommon for legacy carrier to end cheaper than LCCs at the last minute) but, yes, part of the point is also to ensure positioning at the top on comparison sites such as kayak and you are compromising this by withdrawing mini or HBO fares at a particular point in time.
Nov 28, 2014, 3:22 am
#86
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On your suggestion, however, I don't think that the earlier part would be true (about AF still being competitive with tourists). Ultimately, MiNi is "supposedly" intended to compete with low costs, and low costs tend to be affordable till the end. In fact, low cost offer cheap one ways till the end while AF already imposes a ridiculous 42 day advance purchase for one way MiNi fares!!...
MiNi are nasty fares, and they are nasty regardless of the restrictions, but in effect, I mostly think that AF should restore some "classic" advantages to MiNi. For instance, MiNi fares could still be "Hand luggage only" but become changeable for a fee, and they could earn level miles and award miles even if they do not count as level segments. I suspect that this would make the blow less harsh on the self-booking tool victims...
Although, I am sure AF can and have looked at statistics of Elite pax on Mini fares...
Nov 28, 2014, 3:24 am
#87
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Not sure empirically on low costs tending to be affordable until the end (IME, it is very far from uncommon for legacy carrier to end cheaper than LCCs at the last minute) but, yes, part of the point is also to ensure positioning at the top on comparison sites such as kayak and you are compromising this by withdrawing mini or HBO fares at a particular point in time.
Nov 29, 2014, 11:01 am
#89
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Dec 3, 2014, 9:30 pm
#90
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Interesting ly, Amex Travel (at least on the UK retail platform) will not offer hand baggage only fares on BA but will offer mini-fares on AF. Not sure whether it is BA differentiating according to TA (depending on whether the TA is more business or leisure oriented) or Amex themselves.
