MtlChris

I love this. Eithad Residence, Singapore Suite and Air France Tent.

I think the curtain, as a concept, is silly. It seems either like an afterthought, or a very very cheap and low tech way to offer privacy. Reminds me of second class bunker trains in Asia.

This : AF is thinking 50 years backwards instead of 10 forward.

olivedel

AF stated during the Press Conference that they do not compete in the First+ category that EY created with The Residence.

That is how I felt just looking at the Press Release, but felt totally different after trying it for 15 minutes. I did not look cheap at all.

AshleyB

Did you talk to AF management about the problem of the centre seats? It really is a disaster unless the two occupants are together, and even then still quite odd if they are only colleagues/associates and not 'together'. I can foresee problems here. I would not want to pay a full P fare to be randomly thrown into a tent with someone I don't know. There are places in Las Vegas for that kind of thing of course, but for 13 hours to Singapore I don't think so. Unless they build a proper cloison (like on the 9W/TG 773 fleet) this is a bust...

stimpy

A disaster? Really? When an airplane crashes, that is a disaster. When you feel a bit too close to the other person on a commercial flight, that is not a disaster. I've flown millions of miles and tried first classes on most every airline and I've never felt too close to my neighbor even in the old days before suites and flat seats. There's no one touching your shoulder or your knees or anything. It is in your own head if you feel too close to someone. You are on an airplane with maybe 400 other people, yet you have one of the best seats. That is nowhere near a disaster.

And in general, it's probably best to save absolutist comments until you have tried this new seat. As Olivedel sort of said himself two posts up.

orbitmic

I think you fail to answer the specific point that AshleyB and myself were raising about the unique nature of this jointly curtained centre part. This has absolutely nothing to do about being too close to the other person (that was the "old" seat) but has very specifically to do with you sharing a privatised space with someone you do not know. You can of course choose to abandon any privacy (in which case you implicitly also surrender the privacy of your neighbour in the middle island) but if you do, you are effectively sharing a space which will be fully privatised by curtains on both sides and a mere small divider in between those two seats, and where two people (who in the case AshleyB describes are unknown to each other) effectively cohabit.

Let's take an example. Your 13 year old daughter is travelling in J and upgraded to one of those seats. Next to her is a celebrity known for his "partying" temper and and record breaking sex life. Are you happy with the situation? You can of course choose to only focus on one word that a previous poster chose in his characterisation but effectively, however you choose to call this, it strikes me as a poorly thought design in case those two people who do not know each other closely travel in those two middle seats. Best case scenario, they have to completely surrender privacy (leave curtains open) and they will be unhappy, worst case scenario, they draw the curtains, share a very intimate tent with a stranger for 12 hours at 35000 feet above sea level and one day or another you'll probably have some nasty "fait divers" which will do considerable PR damage to the airline. This is simply a dumb idea.

orbitmic

Olivedel gave us an excellent report on his impressions after first trying the seat, but again, this is irrelevant to the point raised above about the centre part because one thing that our Flyertalk explorer could not possibly have reported on is how it feels to be on the flight in the middle island with someone next to you and both curtains drawn. This is (I should imagine thankfully!) not what he got to experience and frankly, I would not be surprised if the AF people who are not always known for their "esprit pratique" may not even have thought of it. To be honest, I find it rather counter-productive to blame someone who is raising a genuinely intriguing point and asks whether this has been conveyed to the AF people there. Despite the single word you focus on, if you reread AshleyB's points on that, they are really not expressed in a dramatic way and if I were a company introducing a new design I would very much want people to tell me about their concerns and worries. It maybe that the airline chooses to ignore them, but it is equally possible that they find it useful and find a small tweak that further improves their new cabin and prevents a situation whereby the first few reviews on the new product as experienced in the air focus on a negative aspect that could have been avoided instead of raving about all the other good features of the new design.

AshleyB

Thank you orbitmic for your excellent resumé of the thinking underlying my observations. Obviously I used the word 'disaster' in the sense that one would qualify a fallen soufflé as a 'disaster'. I am surprised that needed stating. Indeed, it was the notion of sharing a private space with an unknown person that I found frankly a little uncomfortable. I need hardly point out that if I have paid for a P ticket and find myself in such a situation (while looking enviously at the lucky window seat occupants, thus creating a whole new intra-class division) I would be somewhat annoyed. Orbitmic also raises the interesting possibility that one half of the central block would close its curtains while the other half remains open, thus creating a kind of involuntary semi-privacy. The point really is that this aspect of the new product is, I would argue, ill-considered and should be reviewed by the company.

Zembla

Er...has anybody already seen how the two centre seats are organised? As so often in this forum, I have the impression that all the sentiments about it are based on speculation, and not on facts...unless I missed something, of course.

AshleyB

They are identical to the window seats, with a small divider that can be raised and with curtains on the aisles. When the curtains are closed on both sides it creates a private space. There is no curtain between the two seats.

stimpy

My point was, if I may repeat it, that you don't know what you don't know. You've never sat in these seats. You've only read about it here and seen some photos. The middle divider may be just fine. Have you never sat in EK F? I've done the middle seat there and the divider works quite well. You do not at all feel like you are in the space of your neighbor, even when the door to the aisle is closed. I think you are letting your imagination run away with you.

Nonsense. Your daughter could be sat next to anyone in any class on any airline and be exposed to a rude neighbor. The crew will surely deal with it no matter where she is sat. And again, the divider works quite well here.

San Gottardo

Which is fair enough and a business decision.

Only ironic to see how once more they announce things with great fanfare ("our new Premiere will be the best") and the day it is presented to the public it has already been surpassed, making the great fanfare announcement a farce.

Other than the problem of the two curtained-in middle seats (sitting there with a stranger and just a little divider between us would make me feel like in a field hospital in WW II) I wanted to pick up people's opinions about something else: isn't this just a very major upgrade of the àlready existing concept, rather than something completely new?

Sure, you have the curtain now for some privacy, you have a bigger table and screen, etc. But the overall concept is still the same, the overall layout, the Ottoman. There is nothing innovative there, not even picking up elements that exist with other carriers' First Class like the personalis mini bar (best would be: a personalised mini bar), a tablet-like device to control the IFE, etc.

Not saying that AF should have introduced these things, I like what I see the way it is. Just trying to categorise this in my head. The jump from the old Premiere to the new one is like the one from the old MINI car by Austin to the relaunch by BMW 20 years later: all is new, but it somehow remains the same idea and concept. It is less revolutionary than for instance the move from large reclining Business seats to hard shells with lie-flat to "Mini suites" (à la EK). In a way the new Premiere is just the 2014 version of the same old concept, isn't it?

Zembla

Have you seen the divider/ How small is it? What's your definition of small?

How little? like the current divider? Bigger? Smaller? Any references? Pictures?

ok986

How is that different from F on LH or LX? is the divider so much smaller?

AshleyB

It is probably shoulder height, according to the photos in the press package. It is very similar to the LH/LX divider (nb that LH/LX do not curtain off their central seats). The point I was making (and has now been lost in an ocean of well meaning nit-picking) is that the privacy aspect of this new cabin is troublesome as it applies to those two central seats. Of course, as nobody has yet flown anywhere in these seats, my observations are entirely hypothetical and it may be that those concerns are baseless and that a long flight in those middle seats will be an experience unparalleled in the history of modern aviation. In the meantime I maintain that, as shown, being curtained off with a stranger might be disconcerting. It is naturally an individual response. Others may not mind at all.

LoungeBum

I dont get to fly F, but it will be nice to try this product one day...

Must of my flights are in J, and usually I travel with my family, I enjoy more the type of seat with less divisions...

I am the annoying guy travelling with my kids.. and sometimes my dog (In Cabin)! I have even get rebooked to economy in KL in 777's due to the none space for my pet.

They should be looking also into leaving the last row set for parties of 2 or 4... without annoying the rest of the cabin and without separating a group.