Dumb and dumber - not good sense to lose a customer..
Dec 22, 2011, 9:47 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle Earth, and often worse
Programs: BAEC Silver, A3 Gold
Posts: 2,237
Dumb and dumber - not good sense to lose a customer..
Recently my sons were on RT flights: JFK-CGD-CMN.
At JFK they could not bring an empty-of-fuel MSR stove to me at CMN. They had to leave it behind at JFK and pay $30 storage so they could retrieve it when they came back.
Are AF folks dumb/stupid/what? The stoves are empty and have been for a YEAR. Absolutely NO fuel vapour.
Are they following USA rules or are they just paranoid as compared to the AF and BA folks in Canada? Don't give me any plap about safety - everyone flying is concerned about safety AND none of us want to die while flying...
I can bring the same stove from YYZ with absolutely no problem at all. Why not out of JFK??
Are AF folks going to issue corks to prevent farts that contain explosive methane?
Just wondering about the paranoia regarding an empty MSR stove not being allowed in baggage...
This really boggles the mind and reminds me why I personally refuse to fly via the USA when flying into/out of North America.
At JFK they could not bring an empty-of-fuel MSR stove to me at CMN. They had to leave it behind at JFK and pay $30 storage so they could retrieve it when they came back.
Are AF folks dumb/stupid/what? The stoves are empty and have been for a YEAR. Absolutely NO fuel vapour.
Are they following USA rules or are they just paranoid as compared to the AF and BA folks in Canada? Don't give me any plap about safety - everyone flying is concerned about safety AND none of us want to die while flying...
I can bring the same stove from YYZ with absolutely no problem at all. Why not out of JFK??
Are AF folks going to issue corks to prevent farts that contain explosive methane?
Just wondering about the paranoia regarding an empty MSR stove not being allowed in baggage...This really boggles the mind and reminds me why I personally refuse to fly via the USA when flying into/out of North America.
Dec 23, 2011, 11:20 am
#2
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: IRL
Programs: AF: Plat BD: Gold ICH: Plat Royal Ambassador
Posts: 599
I suspect that this may be an airport security issue.
These documents may be of interest
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...rial_1187.shtm
Camp Stoves - These can travel as carry-on or checked luggage only if they are empty of all fuel and cleaned so that there are no vapors or residue left. Simply emptying the fuel container will leave flammable vapors. We recommend that you ship the fuel containers to your destination ahead of time - passengers frequently have to leave them at the checkpoint because of fuel vapors.
Here is what IATA state
http://www.airberlin.com/site/affili...n.pdf?LANG=eng
this was also discussed in 2004
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/archive/t-381023.html
These documents may be of interest
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...rial_1187.shtm
Camp Stoves - These can travel as carry-on or checked luggage only if they are empty of all fuel and cleaned so that there are no vapors or residue left. Simply emptying the fuel container will leave flammable vapors. We recommend that you ship the fuel containers to your destination ahead of time - passengers frequently have to leave them at the checkpoint because of fuel vapors.
Here is what IATA state
http://www.airberlin.com/site/affili...n.pdf?LANG=eng
this was also discussed in 2004
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/archive/t-381023.html
Dec 24, 2011, 2:48 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle Earth, and often worse
Programs: BAEC Silver, A3 Gold
Posts: 2,237
The initial statement indicated the fuel tanks were empty and were so for a year. White (aka Coleman) gas evaporates very quickly and leaves NO lingering smell like auto fuel or diesel/kerosine.
The bureaucratic paperwork quoted is just that. Are you suggesting that other countries are not as concerned with the safety of air passengers as the USA? Judging by the number of airplane crashes in the USA and elsewhere on this planet no one is immune from "accidents". The safety record of the USA is not enviable when compared to the rest of this planet. I repeat that everyone flying is concerned with flight safety - never mind the nonsense paperwork/rules. The current changes to the allowance for liquids in carry on baggage indicates this.
Besides, I have met others who have brought such stoves out of the USA. Does the bureaucratic "paperwork" suggest their travels were less safe than that of my sons? One would expect some consistency in the application of "safety" regardless of the airline, n'est ce pas?
The bureaucratic paperwork quoted is just that. Are you suggesting that other countries are not as concerned with the safety of air passengers as the USA? Judging by the number of airplane crashes in the USA and elsewhere on this planet no one is immune from "accidents". The safety record of the USA is not enviable when compared to the rest of this planet. I repeat that everyone flying is concerned with flight safety - never mind the nonsense paperwork/rules. The current changes to the allowance for liquids in carry on baggage indicates this.
Besides, I have met others who have brought such stoves out of the USA. Does the bureaucratic "paperwork" suggest their travels were less safe than that of my sons? One would expect some consistency in the application of "safety" regardless of the airline, n'est ce pas?
Dec 24, 2011, 6:16 am
#4
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA
Posts: 8,972
This sounds like one of those threads that no matter what we say or think you are going to criticize our comments and defend yours.
I think it is a little presumptuous of you ( your sons) to ask TSA to take the time to assess whether or not your camping stove has vapors in it or not while 100's of others are waiting to get through security delaying the rest of us. They made a judgement call and decided it " stunk". I'm not sure it is TSA's responsibility to know that camping fuel evaporates in a year. Besides how do you prove it has been a year?
Most of us try and minimize any potential confrontation going through security....not try and create situations that will be questioned and often result in a challenge or less then satisfactory results.
I think it is a little presumptuous of you ( your sons) to ask TSA to take the time to assess whether or not your camping stove has vapors in it or not while 100's of others are waiting to get through security delaying the rest of us. They made a judgement call and decided it " stunk". I'm not sure it is TSA's responsibility to know that camping fuel evaporates in a year. Besides how do you prove it has been a year?
Most of us try and minimize any potential confrontation going through security....not try and create situations that will be questioned and often result in a challenge or less then satisfactory results.
Dec 24, 2011, 6:43 am
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle Earth, and often worse
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Posts: 2,237
I took a look at Air France's site again and there it is - no camp stoves. It has nothing to do with TSA. It seems that I made a mistake in not looking at the fine print. Flying another airline would have been fine - as others have told me from their own experience. It is like some airlines charge heaps for taking a bicycle (XS baggage charges) and others don't.
Next time I will just look at the fine print closer before I book - never mind the cost/convenience My bad this time. Not next time.
No presumptions.. I want my fellow passengers and my sons to be as safe as anyone else, without bureaucratic nonsense. I don't think TSA had anything to do with it, it was just AF policy (as shown by their fine print). Some airlines are just "friendlier" towards campers/bicyclists than other airlines. It seems AF isn't. Time to move on to another airline.
Next time I will just look at the fine print closer before I book - never mind the cost/convenience
My bad this time. Not next time.No presumptions.. I want my fellow passengers and my sons to be as safe as anyone else, without bureaucratic nonsense. I don't think TSA had anything to do with it, it was just AF policy (as shown by their fine print). Some airlines are just "friendlier" towards campers/bicyclists than other airlines. It seems AF isn't. Time to move on to another airline.
Dec 24, 2011, 6:54 am
#6
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bahamas
Programs: AA Plat
Posts: 958
I took a look at Air France's site again and there it is - no camp stoves. It has nothing to do with TSA. It seems that I made a mistake in not looking at the fine print. Flying another airline would have been fine - as others have told me from their own experience. It is like some airlines charge heaps for taking a bicycle (XS baggage charges) and others don't.
Next time I will just look at the fine print closer before I book - never mind the cost/convenience My bad this time. Not next time.
No presumptions.. I want my fellow passengers and my sons to be as safe as anyone else, without bureaucratic nonsense. I don't think TSA had anything to do with it, it was just AF policy (as shown by their fine print). Some airlines are just "friendlier" towards campers/bicyclists than other airlines. It seems AF isn't. Time to move on to another airline.
Next time I will just look at the fine print closer before I book - never mind the cost/convenience
My bad this time. Not next time.No presumptions.. I want my fellow passengers and my sons to be as safe as anyone else, without bureaucratic nonsense. I don't think TSA had anything to do with it, it was just AF policy (as shown by their fine print). Some airlines are just "friendlier" towards campers/bicyclists than other airlines. It seems AF isn't. Time to move on to another airline.