why fly

Perhaps AC should accept West Jets salaries and working conditions and Managment the same. That might solve most of the problems.

RCyyz

Respectfully, I'm not sure that's a fair comment. Like I said, I'm not a fan of unions and for the most part, many of them are pretty stupid in their demands. GM workers don't pay anything for their pension plan for example - what's up with that? AZ unions went on strike to protest bankruptcy measures - well duh!

But for the points made, they all result in lower pay. Obviously, no one wants to be paid less. But let's take things in perspective. If a worker is paid a lot to do not very much, then by all means - take away the vacation and the sick days and for sure, create a new lower pay scale for new employees. But if workers are paid more or less what others in similar jobs make, then the reductions outlined will hurt.

I'm not sure what an AC employee makes and I'm not sure what their vacation allotment is. I'm not even sure what airline employees make generally. But on the surface, I think the reductions as outlined bear consideration in current and future decisions by AC Management.

And absolutely, the last thing that should happen would be to make cuts on the backs of the workers, then pay million-dollar bonuses to the execs. Izzy Sharp said it best - one of the worst things to do is say that employees are number one, then in action put them last. AC is on the brink of bankruptcy. Right now everyone needs to share the pain and do their bit to prevent that from happening. That includes the execs.

flymate5

Air Canada will never change..There is way too much bad blood between employees and the employer. Most employees think AC owes them the world. A bunch of whiners. Where else are you going to find a job doing customer service for over 25 bucks an hour and be rude and miserable to boot and get away with it??

I have no problem with mechs and pilots making the huge coin, but when it comes to unskilled labor like ticket agents and stews makin huge coin , you have to wonder.

Spounce

It really depends on your definition of whiner. Some would define a whiner as a person who had made 35 posts on an internet forum, all of which trashed employees of Air Canada. Sorry about all that anger of yours.

ABG

Welcome to the internet Spounce... It is a real free for all. If it makes you feel better, I have 1700 posts and wouldn't totally disagree with flymate5. The bad blood is very real and you can sense in it bestof2k9's post. The front line staff do not always put their best foot forward. 1/4 of the posts on this board could attest to that. So where will the balance come from? The days ahead will tell, but I'm betting on the Feds having to dictate the solution and toss in some money.

Spounce

Unless every last one of those 1700 posts of yours trashes AC employees and unless you never have anything nice to say, I'm not sure what you believe you have in common with flymate5.

Bad blood being evident in the writing of one poster here doesn't mean that it runs right through an organization. I'd also point out that it's nowhere near widespread enough to cause the type of operational meltdown that we have seen over the past year or so at a number of other airlines such as Air France, Lufthansa, Alitalia (many times), United or Northwest. That some front line staff don't put their best foot forward is true, unfortunately, but that's the case in many other workplaces. And as 1/4 of the posts on this board could also attest, most AC employees do give it their best.

I think it's still a bit early to predict what the future holds. There are too many variables.

bestof2k9

This is not the place for me to discuss employee/employer relationships, however I will say this :

My post was a response to a blatant generalisation of the nefariousness of unions, I wasn't trying to show bad blood between employees and employer, simply trying to show that sacrifices have been made by the unions at AC when times were hard, and they haven't always been out to milk the cow.

Secondly, I have nothing against executives being rewarded, for a job well done , however I find it hard to justify all the monies paid out to top management, in light of the events that happened over the past few years, and that partly brought Air Canada to the precarious financial situation it finds itself in today.

It is hard to demonstrate solidarity towards a company, when they don't demonstrate any towards the employees.

Take David Barger, CEO of JetBlue, in example. Last year, he accepted a 50% percent pay cut, over a 6 month period, in acknowledgement of the hard time the airline was going through. While this gesture is only symbolical, as his 250,000$ salary still places him in the top 3% best paid individuals in the USA, it shows that he knows, he cares, and he's willing to help out.

Cheers,

A self-centered flyertalker, who puts his left foot forward and thinks he is owed the world

Bestof2k9

getaround

As I always say don't like the job get another one; why do folks stay? cause its still a good deal with comparable industry skills.

anti_ice

It's been a few years since I ran into a terrible AC employee in my travels.

ramp roscoe

Here's a little info I don't mind sharing, when I started in '95 as a cleaner I was making $9.79/hr, when I started back with ramp services after being laid off as a mechanic and not wanting to move to YUL I was offered a starting wage of $10.62, this summer they are paying part time staff $10.80 in YVR for ramp duties. Not huge money, but as people say no one's holding a gun to your head.


Ramp Roscoe
YVR

flymate5

And why do people stay...I wonder..could it be the lax work environment and no accountability???

bestof2k9

No, its because some people can like a job, enjoy working and helping out customers, even if the pay is bad, and not be miserable.

But I guess you can't understand that, now can you?

ramp roscoe

It's a bit of both,a small percentage actually enjoy what they're doing and have fun going into work, many are "trapped" by the pension plan and are so poisoned they can't work anywhere else or would be tolerated anywhere else, some come just for the flight benefits etc, but as for the starting wage I'd say they're not coming for that.


Ramp Roscoe
YVR

AC681

Nor do I have a problem shareing my info,

As a Jazz F/A I am paid 25.98 Per block hour, a block hour being door closed to door open, average block hours per month somewhere between 78 and 85. With the maximum being 90.

The maximum block hour rate for those of us hired post CCAA is 27.02 per block hour.

Why do I stay? I love my job, and think that im pretty good at it, everyone here is the judge of that however!

RCyyz

Those are interesting numbers - thanks for sharing.

If you do the math, it's easier to see why some individuals might have the attitude they do. But on the flip side, it also demonstrates that the people who do a good job are special folks that we pax should take a moment to appreciate.