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"Somewhat scary one near Winnipeg" - The AC Master Incidents Thread

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"Somewhat scary one near Winnipeg" - The AC Master Incidents Thread

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Old Jun 14, 2022, 1:31 pm
  #4486  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
As I was reading the article, I kept thinking ATC screwed up. Why would they give takeoff clearance when the previous aircraft hadn't taken off yet?

So... you're telling me... both aircraft were being reported as being airborne while both were still on the ground?
The full report is quite interesting
https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-r...9/a20o0029.pdf

Originally Posted by canadiancow
I'm sure there must be a better option for communicating than analog radio.
| Edit: There is. It's called CPDLC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contro...communications) and it's basically text messaging for ATC/Pilot communications. I think it has lots of value some some types of communications (flight routings, etc) ... but I don't think that would ever replace an urgent "Hit birds, rejecting takeoff" message.
Last edited by canopus27; Jun 14, 2022 at 2:35 pm Reason: Added comment about CPDLC
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Old Jun 14, 2022, 2:35 pm
  #4487  
 
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Originally Posted by canopus27
The full report is quite interesting
https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-r...9/a20o0029.pdf
An interesting read, especially how both aircraft determine (and communicate) if they are in the air. That, coupled with the decision thresholds and hysteresis present in all of the relevant systems, leads to an interesting set of circumstance where the information being presented (or not, as the case may be) to controllers has a non-zero probability of being very wrong.

If the 777 pilots had not followed procedure, this could of gone another way. But they did and now we get to read about an incident, not an accident.
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Old Jun 14, 2022, 4:12 pm
  #4488  
 
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777 headed to Halifax?

Always the bridesmaid.
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Old Jun 14, 2022, 6:10 pm
  #4489  
 
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Originally Posted by rankourabu
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/two-air-c...onto-1.5946090


Two Air Canada planes missed colliding at Toronto Pearson after the flight crew of a Boeing 777 and air traffic control missed a radio call saying another plane was still on the runway, a report says.
So.... Had visibility been poor (fog/snow), this could have been another ground collision like Tenerife.
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Old Jun 14, 2022, 6:23 pm
  #4490  
 
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Originally Posted by expert7700
So.... Had visibility been poor (fog/snow), this could have been another ground collision like Tenerife.
My thoughts exactly
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Old Jun 14, 2022, 7:18 pm
  #4491  
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
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Originally Posted by canopus27
The full report is quite interesting
https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-r...9/a20o0029.pdf



| Edit: There is. It's called CPDLC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contro...communications) and it's basically text messaging for ATC/Pilot communications. I think it has lots of value some some types of communications (flight routings, etc) ... but I don't think that would ever replace an urgent "Hit birds, rejecting takeoff" message.
CPDLC is only really used during the cruise portion of flight for things like altitude requests, routing changes, simple things like “when are you able FL400”. It’s not advanced enough for complex things and we aren’t supposed to use it when safety could be a factor.
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Old Jun 16, 2022, 7:00 am
  #4492  
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So this runway incursion occurred 27-months ago and the TSB report is out now? Is that due to the pandemic and glacial pace of bureaucratic matters or solely the latter?
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Old Jun 16, 2022, 7:35 am
  #4493  
 
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Originally Posted by tcook052
So this runway incursion occurred 27-months ago and the TSB report is out now? Is that due to the pandemic and glacial pace of bureaucratic matters or solely the latter?
I think "years" is a pretty typical timeframe for a final report. If there are critical problems the investigators and regulators are quite able to issue emergency orders.
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Old Jul 17, 2022, 10:11 pm
  #4494  
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This popped up on social media. As far as I know it was within the last week.

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Old Jul 17, 2022, 10:19 pm
  #4495  
 
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That's one way to push back a plane.

According to the FIN, that's a Jazz CR9 (C-GJFZ).
Last edited by Bohemian1; Jul 17, 2022 at 10:25 pm
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Old Jul 17, 2022, 10:31 pm
  #4496  
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Originally Posted by Bohemian1
According to the FIN, that's a Jazz CR9 (C-GJFZ).
I did try to do a little research before deciding it was on topic for this thread
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Old Jul 17, 2022, 10:54 pm
  #4497  
 
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
This popped up on social media. As far as I know it was within the last week.
Originally Posted by Bohemian1
That's one way to push back a plane.

According to the FIN, that's a Jazz CR9 (C-GJFZ).
according to FlightRadar24, C-GJFZ has been happily flying all week, currently in air between Calgary and Victoria.
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Old Jul 17, 2022, 10:55 pm
  #4498  
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It took a couple days off
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Old Jul 17, 2022, 11:02 pm
  #4499  
 
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
It took a couple days off
according to FR24 only a couple of cancelled flights (and not back-to-back) since July 11th inclusive. I don’t have a paid subscription to look further back.
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Old Jul 17, 2022, 11:22 pm
  #4500  
 
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Originally Posted by visitor
according to FlightRadar24, C-GJFZ has been happily flying all week, currently in air between Calgary and Victoria.
So it really was a case of, "Ah relax, that'll buff right out!"
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