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AC Cargo-Only Flights (2020 onwards)

AC Cargo-Only Flights (2020 onwards)

Old Mar 24, 2020, 3:35 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by Symmetre
I would have to wonder how much cargo traffic handled by DHL, FedEx etc is subject to exclusivity agreements .... we'll give you this rate, provided you give us exclusivity as the carrier. Such agreements are SOP in many industries ... perhaps someone with a background in logistics could chime in and indicate if that may be a reason we're seeing parked aircraft in spite of such high cargo demand.
When I have had cargo on Air Canada flights it has always been through a Freight Forward. DHL, FedEX etc have Freight forwarding divisions. With a freight forwarder you identify the pickup and drop off locations. They then sort out what airline the cargo goes on and in some cases it may need to transfer between airlines at some hub. DHL has no problem putting cargo on other airlines as required.

Given what would have normally moved between Canada and Europe on Air Canada, BA, KLM, TAP, SAS, Turkish, Austrian, Brussels, Swiss, etc. there is probably a good opportunity.

On the financial side the issue is do they have a small loss doing the cargo flight vrs the aircraft being parked and still paying the pilots and financing. That is a much lower threshold vrs normal times.
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Old Mar 24, 2020, 4:11 pm
  #17  
 
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I am sure there are discussions at the Air Canada Ivory Tower. Air Canada used to have a nice fleet of DC-8F as AC Cargo and they gave that up. They used to have a cool route YYZ-LHR-DEL-SIN where they used a 747-400 Combi and they would prioritize cargo over passengers. AC Cargo is small as CargoJet does most cargo within Canada.
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Old Mar 24, 2020, 5:14 pm
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by tracon
A four man crew can get a 20 hour duty day.
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviati...sfo9c-2583.htm


705 only
  • 17 hours where a flight relief facility seat is provided
  • 12 hours maximum flight deck time for any crew member
  • 20 hours where a flight relief facility bunk is provided
  • 14 hours maximum flight deck time for any crew member
Those are the TC limits. The AC pilot contract has lower limits.
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Old Mar 24, 2020, 5:38 pm
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by StuMcIlwain
Those are the TC limits. The AC pilot contract has lower limits.
There isn't anything preventing the AC pilots from accepting a short term change to the contract to allow freight operations, while remaining in compliance with TC regulations. They might be willing to do something short-term given the extraordinary circumstances, pending layoffs/furloughs, etc.
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Old Mar 24, 2020, 5:40 pm
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by YEG USER
There isn't anything preventing the AC pilots from accepting a short term change to the contract to allow freight operations, while remaining in compliance with TC regulations. They might be willing to do something short-term given the extraordinary circumstances, pending layoffs/furloughs, etc.
Also nothing to say that with a lot of empty seats and bored pilots that they would not just commute one direction and work on the return to get some kind of income and keep hours up for qualifications.
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Old Mar 24, 2020, 5:42 pm
  #21  
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Originally Posted by HerpaYvr
I am sure there are discussions at the Air Canada Ivory Tower. Air Canada used to have a nice fleet of DC-8F as AC Cargo and they gave that up. They used to have a cool route YYZ-LHR-DEL-SIN where they used a 747-400 Combi and they would prioritize cargo over passengers. AC Cargo is small as CargoJet does most cargo within Canada.
Believe AC also operated 747-200 Combis on the YUL-CDG route for decades.
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Old Mar 24, 2020, 6:19 pm
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by tracon
A four man crew can get a 20 hour duty day.
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviati...sfo9c-2583.htm


705 only
  • 17 hours where a flight relief facility seat is provided
  • 12 hours maximum flight deck time for any crew member
  • 20 hours where a flight relief facility bunk is provided
  • 14 hours maximum flight deck time for any crew member
Thanks for posting. My guess is seat means any seat regardless of if its J pod, J seat or Y seat?

As for AC operating cargo or combi aircraft, I recall AC even considered ordering 777F when they were acquiring 777s.
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Old Mar 24, 2020, 6:37 pm
  #23  
 
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C-FITL operated a non-passenger flight (based on flight #) yesterday to LHR and returned to YYZ today as AC7152/7153. It's off to AMS today as AC7154.

Normally 7xxx flight #'s are ferry or positioning flights, but these don't seem to fall into that category. Could be running as cargo flights.

As an aside, AC only has 3 777s in the air right now - sad sight.
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Old Mar 26, 2020, 10:12 am
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by StuMcIlwain
Those are the TC limits. The AC pilot contract has lower limits.
ACPA limits can't be that much lower.
YVR-MEL is an 18 hour duty day with no delays.

As for cargo, I've been led to believe that there has been some cargo only flights Latin America, South America and Europe.
Apparently AC is looking into domestic cargo only flights as well. Including AC Express being used for smaller markets.
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Old Mar 26, 2020, 10:26 am
  #25  
 
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They've put out a press release with more details: https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2020...ecessary-Goods


Air Canada Begins Operating Cargo-only Flights Carrying Vital Supplies, Necessary Goods
  • Shipments between Canada and Europe, South America and Latin America

MONTREAL, March 25, 2020 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada said today that through its Air Canada Cargo division it has begun using its aircraft to operate cargo-only flights to Europe, with other flights planned for Latin America and South America. The aircraft on these flights carry no passengers but move time-sensitive shipments, including medical supplies to combat COVID-19, and goods to support the global economy.

"Air Canada Cargo has long served as a vital link in global supply chains and with the disruption arising from the COVID-19 pandemic our capabilities are more important than ever. Although we have announced very significant temporary capacity reductions and our passenger flights are largely dedicated to bringing Canadians home, Air Canada's aircraft and our expertise in handling cargo are valuable assets that we can use to move medical supplies and other essential goods to keep the world economy going. We have already begun flights to Europe, and we are planning to expand this program to Latin America and South America, as well as within Canada, including remote communities using Air Canada Express aircraft. In addition to providing a much-needed service, these cargo-only flights are also supporting jobs at Air Canada," said Tim Strauss, Vice President of Cargo, at Air Canada.

The first cargo-only flights departed from Toronto this past week for Frankfurt, London and Amsterdam, which are all both important business centres and connection points for onward cargo shipments. The flights were operated using Boeing 787 aircraft capable of carrying 35 tonnes of cargo, the equivalent of about 80 grand pianos. Shippers and freight forwarders using the service are charged a flat rate for both directions and Air Canada Cargo is also introducing a fractional program, so shippers who do not require a whole aircraft can book space. The arrangements with the shippers and freight forwarders contain clear provisions to ensure that these essential goods are being sold at fair market rates and to authorized suppliers.

Air Canada Cargo is now exploring opportunities to offer this service domestically. It is working with various governments to assess the demand and assist in moving relief goods from multiple markets within Canada. This includes using smaller Air Canada Express regional aircraft to operate to less-well served, smaller or remote regions in Canada with medical and other emergency supplies in support of local governments.

Air Canada does not operate cargo aircraft, instead its Air Canada Cargo division manages and markets excess belly space on the airline's regular passenger flights for shippers operating worldwide. To facilitate the cargo-only flights, Air Canada Cargo has created five, segment-specific sales teams to focus on the unique needs of the customers at different levels in the supply chain. For more information, including shipper inquiries, please see https://www.aircanada.com/cargo/en/.
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Old Mar 26, 2020, 10:46 pm
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by HerpaYvr
I am sure there are discussions at the Air Canada Ivory Tower. Air Canada used to have a nice fleet of DC-8F as AC Cargo and they gave that up. They used to have a cool route YYZ-LHR-DEL-SIN where they used a 747-400 Combi and they would prioritize cargo over passengers. AC Cargo is small as CargoJet does most cargo within Canada.
Yes, CargoJet has the big Purolator account and is doing work for Amazon plus many other. They are doing that with 757 and 767 aircraft. Many of these aircraft spend a lot of time on the ground. As an example the one that handles Saskatchewan spends the day in Saskatoon, late evening it will fly to Regina to pickup some more cargo and then off to Winnipeg. In the early morning it does the reverse and then sits all day in Saskatoon. They are able to make to money with a 757 or 767 that flys a few hours a day.

I think the reality is this will go on for a month or two and then things will very slowly start to open up. I think it is going to take AC and WS years to convince anyone to fly the way they were before all this happened. Perhaps it is time for AC to start looking at those 767 it has and ask the question is it time to convert them to cargo aircraft. If CargoJet can make their cargo network work with such low utilization there must be some money in it.
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Old Mar 27, 2020, 1:56 am
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by Admiral Ackbar
Believe AC also operated 747-200 Combis on the YUL-CDG route for decades.
Well - It was actually YMX-CDG - - and it was AC870. I took it once . . The upstairs had a small Y-Cabin with 30 seats - almost like a mini exclusive section . was pretty cool.
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Old Mar 27, 2020, 5:44 am
  #28  
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I think they could also move the cargo dividing bulkhead on the main deck depending on how they wanted the pax/freight ratio to be.

I know those 742 Combis were very versatile aircraft and they made a lot of $ for AC at the time.
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Old Mar 27, 2020, 7:34 am
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by Fiordland
Yes, CargoJet has the big Purolator account and is doing work for Amazon plus many other. They are doing that with 757 and 767 aircraft. Many of these aircraft spend a lot of time on the ground. As an example the one that handles Saskatchewan spends the day in Saskatoon, late evening it will fly to Regina to pickup some more cargo and then off to Winnipeg. In the early morning it does the reverse and then sits all day in Saskatoon. They are able to make to money with a 757 or 767 that flys a few hours a day.
Older, less efficient aircraft making money on daily cargo flights is the model that everyone talks about for cargo carriers. Also worthy of note would be th cheaper, less experienced, less unionized, crews staffing those companies.

The implied conjecture is that AC could bring economies of scale to cargo, but could that overcome the agility (read: cheapness) of a scrappy little startup?

Are there different safety standards for cargo aircraft? Could AC get another 5000 hours out of a 320 if it's only carrying crew and crap from Amazon?
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Old Mar 27, 2020, 9:46 am
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by Admiral Ackbar
I think they could also move the cargo dividing bulkhead on the main deck depending on how they wanted the pax/freight ratio to be.

I know those 742 Combis were very versatile aircraft and they made a lot of $ for AC at the time.
Until someone forgot to place the pogo stick under the tail when the back was full of cargo and passengers had deplaned.
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