JordanK

No, you cannot claim that. I mean, you can, but no one will listen or care. If you feel strongly about it, I suggest you call your MP and explain to them how your time is more valuable than a backpacker's, and encourage them to enact law that recognizes that.

Air Canada doesn't want to compensate you at all in the first place, so they will, of course, never compensate you more than they are required to.

canadiancow

The QR/AC relationship on that flight is interesting. QR has a block of seats. They oversold that block. I don't think this even qualifies as an AC issue.

Livyer

I missed a connection to 843 in FRA yesterday due to a late inbound LH flight from CPH. The concierge (Afsaneh, who tried very hard to help, but clearly was new to the job) met me at the gate and spent a couple of hours trying to rebook me. The problem is getting a seat from YYZ (or YUL or YHX) to YYT. In the end, the concierge called Lufthansa and they rebooked my on 841 today (and reissed the ticket as a Lufthansa ticket). But they rebooked me only to Toronto. I was able to get the AC staff here to put my on standby to YYT. My question is this - who do I contact for EU 261 compensation? Will AC push this off to LH (delay was caused initially by LH and return ticket is now LH)? However, I booked on AC and AC might not be able to get me home until Wednesday (earliest day I could see seat availability online).

canadiancow

LH. You had a good itinerary until LH broke it.

YYCCL3

In ExpertFlyer the comments simply state that it was forced to return to YVR, flight cancelled. Any compensation claim will be denied straightaway but they should be on the hook for standard of treatment (ie: a hotel room and meals).

Air Passenger Protection Regulations Highlights | Canadian Transportation Agency (otc-cta.gc.ca)

CdnFlier

Yeah, I figured they'd deny it for that. But the pilot specifically said it was because a system on the plane was malfunctioning, so figure it's worth a shot since it does come down to maintenance.

bmchris

My niece was on AC737 Dec 20 from YYZ- SFO. She took some sleep medicine after boarding and woke up with the plane still in Toronto at the gate. When she asked what the delay was, they said they couldn’t find the pilots.

Upon submitting a claim on the web form, AC said the delay was due to immigration clearance delays. 4 Hours?

How can we work out the real delay reason? How should we proceed?

Davvidd

The Pilots not showing up seems to be a regular theme this time. I had a passenger who was joining a domestic flight who was in the same position. More than a Few hours on the aircraft and then deplaned due to no pilot.

Changeup2000

I picture the US border control agents taking the pilot into the interrogation room and leaving them to rot there, while AC scrambling to find a replacement pilot with their passport on hand.

Davvidd

That could be for an International flight but for domestic flight? Plus all the aircrew are on the Gen Dec and are not subject to the same rules like normal passengers.

zappy312

The "easy" way IMO is to escalate it through the CTA's complaint process. Eventually you'll get the official reason for the delay, substantiated with evidence. It might require facilitation, mediation and finally adjudication. The process is straight forward, at no cost and comes with little to no risk to you. Unfortunately it's very, very slow (the CTA is backed up), some will say the CTA is biased towards the airlines and you may get your case lumped in with others.

Maintenance is only "Disruptions within the Airline's Control" if it's scheduled maintenance, or issues that are discovered as part of scheduled maintenance.

Defects that arise outside of scheduled maintenance are "Disruptions within the Airline's Control but Required for Safety". And those wouldn't be eligible for cash compensation.

So I guess it comes down to when the system was found to be inoperative. It could make an interesting CTA case since you don't know enough to determine if AC is acting fairly. And I'd guess the email monkeys wouldn't know enough to make an accurate assessment either. I guess if the system was discovered inoperative during scheduled maintenance, and AC chose to operate the aircraft with limitations, then you could potentially get compensation? But if the system was discovered inoperative during a previous flight, pre-flight or during flight, then no comp applies. The only way to get enough information to be able to analyze the delay would probably only arise during court or the CTA's adjudication.

Source: https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/publicatio...uption-a-guide

Davvidd

Thats the problem with Canada's Passenger Rights. It is stacked against the passenger from the start. This was not the early draft they had. But it has been watered down so that the airline can get away with almost everything. Any delay apart from the weather and the airport's fault should be the airline's responsibility.

canadiancow

The airline is a customer of the airport. The passenger has a contract with the airline.

If a delay is caused by the airline's vendor, that's the airline's issue to deal with, in the context of the airline-passenger contract.

But even talking about "weather" gets murky. If I'm flying YYZ-SFO and there's bad weather in YVR that the airline says caused my delay, is that "weather" or "poor planning" ?

Sure, a storm in YYZ that delays YYZ-SFO is fine. Or a storm in SFO that delays YYZ-SFO. But I've had delays on YYZ-SFO that AC attributed to weather in Europe. There's always weather somewhere, and it shouldn't be a network-wide get-out-jail-free card.

Davvidd

I know there are no free aircraft sitting around but that is why I feel that the Canadian Passenger Rights is a cop out. As you say there is always some weather somewhere in the World. What gets my goat is the get out of free for the technical delays. Anything to do with safety should be the airlines responsibility. So is getting a pilot to the airport in time too.

Changeup2000

I believe we need something akin to the “proximate cause” here.

For example, if the airlines, on its own fault, delay/cancel my flight, it is reasonable for me to claim my loss of hotel reservation which is not cancellable. It is not reasonable for me to claim my loss of business because I am not able to participate in an important business negotiation due to the delay/cancellation.

if we hold the airlines to the same standard, it becomes quite obvious a bad weather in another part of the system that, after scrambling of the airlines, ends with a shortage of available planes/crew/pilots to fly my flight, cannot be used as a reasonable defense of the delay/cancellation of my flight.