AE Upgrade Denied - Looking for an opinion

Old Sep 10, 19, 2:08 pm
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AE Upgrade Denied - Looking for an opinion

I thought I would throw this to the community. I am trying to understand if I am wrong, or if AC is wrong.

Had a AE reward in O class. Their return flight they were confirmed in Y and were supposed to standby in O.

The station manager denied the upgrade request at checkin and at the gate, so they flew in Y. According to the App, when the flight closed, O was 22/24 full. Keep in mind, the request just to be put on the list was denied. I would understand if the upgrade didn't clear but they were not given the opportunity.

I sent an email off to AC. Their reply has been pretty firm in so that, since there are no guarantees for an upgrade, the fact that they were not put on the list, is enough to consider the complaint invalid.

Am I wrong in thinking that is completely incorrect? Again, if the list did not end up with a green checkmark, fine. That is how it goes. However, to not even be put on the list seems like a legit complaint.

I am banging my head against the wall with CS on this one but before I push it further, I thought I would check to see if I have lost my mind, or my complaint is valid.
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Old Sep 10, 19, 2:12 pm
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Did you follow the directions in Getting upgraded on mixed cabin Aeroplan redemptions ?

I've found a lot of agents have no idea how this works, but having a script and technical steps for them really helps.

In the general case, yes, I think you have a complaint.

But there's a huge difference between showing up and saying "give me PY right now!" and following instructions that are known to work.
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Old Sep 10, 19, 2:15 pm
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Of course

The station manager refused to put them on the list. That was the exact request. Please put us on the list for an upgrade to O.

No, the cabin is full, I won't do it.

Flight departs not full.

It is clear she didn't want to or couldn't be bothered, it seemed.

Clarification, it was not me but my parents (one who is also a MM, so he knows the routine)
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Old Sep 10, 19, 2:25 pm
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"Please put us on the list for an upgrade to O."

isn't correct. The correct phrasing, and correct me if I'm wrong, Cow, would be

"Please put us on the standby list for our entitled spot in O."
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Old Sep 10, 19, 2:30 pm
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Originally Posted by lcohen999 View Post
Of course

The station manager refused to put them on the list. That was the exact request. Please put us on the list for an upgrade to O.

No, the cabin is full, I won't do it.

Flight departs not full.

It is clear she didn't want to or couldn't be bothered, it seemed.

Clarification, it was not me but my parents (one who is also a MM, so he knows the routine)
I don't think I've ever had anyone unwilling, just unable.

Here's from your ticket receipt, which I would quote in your next reply to AC:

If your itinerary includes flights operated by Air Canada or Air Canada Express where you redeemed a Fixed Mileage Flight
Reward in Business Class, but only seats in the Economy cabin were available at the time of booking, on the day of
departure you may request that an Air Canada check-in agent places you on the standby list for an upgrade to the Business
Class cabin. Standby is not permitted on flights operated by other Star Alliance member airlines. Please note that airport
standby upgrades are subject to availability and cannot be guaranteed. The mileage level redeemed for this itinerary is
valid and no compensation or mileage adjustments will be provided.
Technically it doesn't say "they must fulfill your request and place you on the standby list", but if they actually refused, it seems like they broke policy.

Courts don't like when companies violate contracts they wrote.

Originally Posted by RangerNS View Post
"Please put us on the list for an upgrade to O."

isn't correct. The correct phrasing, and correct me if I'm wrong, Cow, would be

"Please put us on the standby list for our entitled spot in O."
From the other thread:

"Hi, I have a business class Aeroplan redemption, but this segment is only confirmed in economy. Can you please add me to the upgrade list for business class?"
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Old Sep 10, 19, 2:41 pm
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
From the other thread:

"Hi, I have a business class Aeroplan redemption, but this segment is only confirmed in economy. Can you please add me to the upgrade list for business class?"
I'll take that as "close enough".

OP, if they asked for an upgrade, they may have right off confused the agent and station manager. They may have inadvertently life-hacked their way out of properly being re-cabined if they kept using the "upgrade" word.

Which may or may not change the legal process, but incorrectly using jargon words would easily explain why the agents thought they a) knew what they were talking about and b) were asking for something they were not entitled to... that is asking for free stuff ... and would c) explain a curt and dismissive attitude in response.
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Old Sep 10, 19, 2:47 pm
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Originally Posted by RangerNS View Post
I'll take that as "close enough".

OP, if they asked for an upgrade, they may have right off confused the agent and station manager. They may have inadvertently life-hacked their way out of properly being re-cabined if they kept using the "upgrade" word.

Which may or may not change the legal process, but incorrectly using jargon words would easily explain why the agents thought they a) knew what they were talking about and b) were asking for something they were not entitled to... that is asking for free stuff ... and would c) explain a curt and dismissive attitude in response.
"Upgrade" is the correct word to use, in terms of technical jargon. It's the only remotely relevant word that shows up anywhere on their terminal during the process.
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Old Sep 10, 19, 4:17 pm
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I've had a similar situation happen but with e-upgrading a travel companion at ZRH airport. I asked for him to be placed on the upgrade list for O using my credits, and it was refused by an AC staff member. By the time I talked to the station manager, the automatic process had run, and eventhough there was an empty seat in O the travel companion could not be upgraded. The station manager apologized but that was the end of it.
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Old Sep 10, 19, 4:38 pm
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lcohen999

Did the station manager understand that the ticket was ticketed in PY?

Did your MM parent call the concierge (are they SE?) at the time they were denied and before the flight closed?
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Old Sep 10, 19, 4:43 pm
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Originally Posted by yyznomad View Post
Did the station manager understand that the ticket was ticketed in PY?
I don't consider that to be an accurate statement.

Having just done a F rtw, I made sure to check this, and:
F segments were class O fare basis OBP00
J segments were class I fare basis IBP00
Y segments were class X fare basis XBP00

The segments are ticketed in the cabin they're confirmed in. It does not work the same way as a revenue ticket, where SFO-YVR-YYJ can be confirmed in P/M but both have a P30xxEL fare basis.
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Old Sep 10, 19, 4:47 pm
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
I don't consider that to be an accurate statement.

Having just done a F rtw, I made sure to check this, and:
F segments were class O fare basis OBP00
J segments were class I fare basis IBP00
Y segments were class X fare basis XBP00

The segments are ticketed in the cabin they're confirmed in. It does not work the same way as a revenue ticket, where SFO-YVR-YYJ can be confirmed in P/M but both have a P30xxEL fare basis.
Apologies - read O as in AC O and not "Aeroplan" O.

So OP, did the station understand the situation correctly?
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Old Sep 10, 19, 4:56 pm
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Originally Posted by yyznomad View Post
lcohen999

Did the station manager understand that the ticket was ticketed in PY?

Did your MM parent call the concierge (are they SE?) at the time they were denied and before the flight closed?
They did not. I did not hear about it until after the fact or I would have called on their behalf (he is retired, so just the MM, no SE status)

To answer the other questions, obviously I was not there for the actual discussion but I am sure he used the term upgrade. However, we are really reaching to argue semantics on this, I believe. If the station manager was not sure, she could have looked up their ticket (one would assume)
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Old Sep 10, 19, 4:58 pm
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Originally Posted by yyznomad View Post
Apologies - read O as in AC O and not "Aeroplan" O.

So OP, did the station understand the situation correctly?
Great question. I cannot answer. To fill in more of the story. When we booked the ticket, it had a domestic leg in PE to get them into an O ticket. So domestic O, outbound confirmed Y, return confirmed Y.

On their outbound, no problems getting their seat in O. Wait listed and cleared. They would have used the same script on their return. So there should not have been any confusion
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Old Sep 10, 19, 5:02 pm
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Originally Posted by lcohen999 View Post
Great question. I cannot answer. To fill in more of the story. When we booked the ticket, it had a domestic leg in PE to get them into an O ticket. So domestic O, outbound confirmed Y, return confirmed Y.

On their outbound, no problems getting their seat in O. Wait listed and cleared. They would have used the same script on their return. So there should not have been any confusion
Unfortunately, this is exactly why I created a thread on the process.

On the outbound, they were presumably at a big hub with lots of people. On the return, there were probably ~3 actual AC employees working. Not much you can do there if they're useless though.

If they only flew in Y on the entire return portion, I think you have a clear case for getting the difference between PY and Y refunded for that one-way component. And maybe a token gesture from AC for their awesome support.
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Old Sep 10, 19, 6:46 pm
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
Unfortunately, this is exactly why I created a thread on the process.

On the outbound, they were presumably at a big hub with lots of people. On the return, there were probably ~3 actual AC employees working. Not much you can do there if they're useless though.
Memo to self: If I ever send my parents off on a J or PY ticket that is only confirmed in Y (I have done that before, and may do it again) .... make sure to give them a paper copy of cow's instructions before they leave.
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