Operational upgrades (op-ups); and why doesn't AC give away all J seats as comp-ups?
Nov 13, 2019, 12:51 pm
#76
Join Date: Mar 2005
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If you use your Aeroplan miles for domestic / US rewards,.some form of status is worth it to get the airline surcharge waived from award tickets.
Ron.
Ron.
Nov 13, 2019, 4:27 pm
#77
Join Date: Jan 2016
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You can buy a flight pass and get instant status yes. It's certainly not the cheapest way to get *G. Probably looking at least $10k. I think you only get instant status with the purchase of a 6 month unlimited flight pass.
On that note, you can get complimentary upgrades if you buy any latitude pass that is not for intercontinental travel. But you have to request them.
On that note, you can get complimentary upgrades if you buy any latitude pass that is not for intercontinental travel. But you have to request them.
But you can of course do what many do and buy it, upgrade it with eUps (does this require f R>0? Possibly not on Lat, can't recall) then ring up at I think t-48h to undo the eUp and request the complimentary upgrade?
Nov 13, 2019, 4:40 pm
#78
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This is very misleading. You might be getting W&B op-ups on Sky Regional / Air Georgian flights as a United *G or an AC E35/50, when there are very empty J cabins and they need to move like 6 or 8 pax to fix their issues. I'd argue J is marginally better than a Y seat on a bulkhead / exit row on these routes, who really gives a crap about where you sit on YYZ-PHL. You're going to be getting them next to never on mainline flights with that status, and that is the only place they're worth anything.
The first response was the right one; if you want to sit up front be prepared to part with cash and/or instruments, even as an SE. AC doesn't hand out complimentary upgrades for their elites, except for rare operational issues, and as E35 or E50K you're going to be way down the list in those situations.
The first response was the right one; if you want to sit up front be prepared to part with cash and/or instruments, even as an SE. AC doesn't hand out complimentary upgrades for their elites, except for rare operational issues, and as E35 or E50K you're going to be way down the list in those situations.
I guess only AC elites 'cheapen' the front cabin, not foreign elites on K/A fares
Nov 13, 2019, 4:50 pm
#79
Join Date: Dec 2007
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I think there also has to be ... P space? You may have to do battle with agents (HUCA) if the flight is PxR0 where x > 0.
But you can of course do what many do and buy it, upgrade it with eUps (does this require f R>0? Possibly not on Lat, can't recall) then ring up at I think t-48h to undo the eUp and request the complimentary upgrade?
But you can of course do what many do and buy it, upgrade it with eUps (does this require f R>0? Possibly not on Lat, can't recall) then ring up at I think t-48h to undo the eUp and request the complimentary upgrade?
As for the automatic status. The cheapest pass I can find that grants immediate 50k (6 month unlimited latitude) is about a $12K commitment. You can get instant 100k status for about $18K (6 month unlimited J).
Finally while there are no complimentary upgrades with E35K, you still get some eupgrade points and you can for sure use those to sit in J at least once or twice throughout the year, maybe much more if you just buy latitude fares in advance and confirm the upgrade at the time of booking (requires Z space within north america).
Nov 13, 2019, 7:20 pm
#80
Join Date: Jun 2018
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As a United Premier Gold member, I've had my fair share of complimentary upgrades to J flying AC metal (I would estimate about half of my flights which had an available J cabin to upgrade to). Most recently I flew YYZ > PHL and was opd'up at the gate. It's good to see AC showing loyalty where it counts 
Joking aside, the status to get is E50K (*A Gold) with AC if it is reasonable for you to do so. *A Gold gives you special privileges when flying AC and other airlines namely priority booking and re-accomodation during irregular operations (IRROPs). It also puts you at a much higher pecking order for op'ups (as a United Gold I'd still be ahead of you on that queue since I'm *A Gold).
-James
Joking aside, the status to get is E50K (*A Gold) with AC if it is reasonable for you to do so. *A Gold gives you special privileges when flying AC and other airlines namely priority booking and re-accomodation during irregular operations (IRROPs). It also puts you at a much higher pecking order for op'ups (as a United Gold I'd still be ahead of you on that queue since I'm *A Gold).
-James
I'm not even a big spender with them but am into it for $35k so far this year. I've been given an upgrade twice this year. Both times on a badly imbalanced E75.
Careful what message you send to people. The chances of getting a magical upgrade are nearly 0 and it's important people understand that.
Nov 13, 2019, 7:22 pm
#81
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
This is very misleading. You might be getting W&B op-ups on Sky Regional / Air Georgian flights as a United *G or an AC E35/50, when there are very empty J cabins and they need to move like 6 or 8 pax to fix their issues. I'd argue J is marginally better than a Y seat on a bulkhead / exit row on these routes, who really gives a crap about where you sit on YYZ-PHL. You're going to be getting them next to never on mainline flights with that status, and that is the only place they're worth anything.
The first response was the right one; if you want to sit up front be prepared to part with cash and/or instruments, even as an SE. AC doesn't hand out complimentary upgrades for their elites, except for rare operational issues, and as E35 or E50K you're going to be way down the list in those situations.
The first response was the right one; if you want to sit up front be prepared to part with cash and/or instruments, even as an SE. AC doesn't hand out complimentary upgrades for their elites, except for rare operational issues, and as E35 or E50K you're going to be way down the list in those situations.
I dont think so, in <20 flights, I have 6 AC with opups in last ~3 years on transborders, including A320 and another on a widebody. Ialso have 1 intl J (YUL-LHR), 2 intl PY (YYZ-CDG, YUL-PVG) All but one, on lowest fares. There are lots of stories in the UA forum of AC opups.
I guess only AC elites 'cheapen' the front cabin, not foreign elites on K/A fares
I guess only AC elites 'cheapen' the front cabin, not foreign elites on K/A fares
). I will say, it takes a certain sophistication to qualify for UA Gold having spent only $1,400 PQD in a given year Complimentary latitude pass upgrades come from J, not P or R. So as long is a flight is J1, Y1 48 hrs or less from departure you can both book it and immediately secure the upgrade even with zero status and zero eupgrades.
As for the automatic status. The cheapest pass I can find that grants immediate 50k (6 month unlimited latitude) is about a $12K commitment. You can get instant 100k status for about $18K (6 month unlimited J).
Finally while there are no complimentary upgrades with E35K, you still get some eupgrade points and you can for sure use those to sit in J at least once or twice throughout the year, maybe much more if you just buy latitude fares in advance and confirm the upgrade at the time of booking (requires Z space within north america).
As for the automatic status. The cheapest pass I can find that grants immediate 50k (6 month unlimited latitude) is about a $12K commitment. You can get instant 100k status for about $18K (6 month unlimited J).
Finally while there are no complimentary upgrades with E35K, you still get some eupgrade points and you can for sure use those to sit in J at least once or twice throughout the year, maybe much more if you just buy latitude fares in advance and confirm the upgrade at the time of booking (requires Z space within north america).
) so it made sense for me to stick with * this year.In terms of Latitude passes aside from the upgrades, the one thing those passes provide is the latitude (pardon the pun) to make reservations and changes at the very last minute. A latitude fare means you can secure any seat on any AC flight that pass covers so long as there is space in the Economy cabin. At the same time there are no costs to cancel/change flights at the last minute. Other bennies include free baggage, free priority seating, free meal, etc. The best way to explain a latitude fare is it's sort of the Rolls Royce of cattle class (not that you'd be seeing many Canadian cows seated in Latitude Y
)Safe Travels,
James
Nov 13, 2019, 7:22 pm
#82
Join Date: Jun 2018
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I dont think so, in <20 flights, I have 6 AC with opups in last ~3 years on transborders, including A320 and another on a widebody. Ialso have 1 intl J (YUL-LHR), 2 intl PY (YYZ-CDG, YUL-PVG) All but one, on lowest fares. There are lots of stories in the UA forum of AC opups.
I guess only AC elites 'cheapen' the front cabin, not foreign elites on K/A fares
I guess only AC elites 'cheapen' the front cabin, not foreign elites on K/A fares
My initial thought is that we should show AC your posting history around here and see if they keep doling out the love.
Nov 13, 2019, 8:07 pm
#83
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I'm a Canadian citizen which obviously AC can tell from my res/billing address yet they see I've hit UA*G status. Presumably there is an algorithm running in the background that's must assume that I'm loyal to OAL and thinks, "Let's show this Canadian ex-pat what he's missing out not flying AC and gaining Altitude status by opping him up to J".
James
James
I doubt there is anything more to AC opups than dumb luck, flying routes/times without much OPM (ie. Altitude) traffic, or flights that are oversold in Y, empty up front.
Clearly they are not "nearly 0"
Last edited by rankourabu; Nov 13, 2019 at 8:14 pm
Nov 13, 2019, 8:08 pm
#84
Join Date: May 2015
Location: YUL
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This is very misleading. You might be getting W&B op-ups on Sky Regional / Air Georgian flights as a United *G or an AC E35/50, when there are very empty J cabins and they need to move like 6 or 8 pax to fix their issues. I'd argue J is marginally better than a Y seat on a bulkhead / exit row on these routes, who really gives a crap about where you sit on YYZ-PHL. You're going to be getting them next to never on mainline flights with that status, and that is the only place they're worth anything.
The first response was the right one; if you want to sit up front be prepared to part with cash and/or instruments, even as an SE. AC doesn't hand out complimentary upgrades for their elites, except for rare operational issues, and as E35 or E50K you're going to be way down the list in those situations.
The first response was the right one; if you want to sit up front be prepared to part with cash and/or instruments, even as an SE. AC doesn't hand out complimentary upgrades for their elites, except for rare operational issues, and as E35 or E50K you're going to be way down the list in those situations.
For people who do 75% or + of their flying on regionals, that 6AM or 9pm W&B or OpUp upgrade does mean a lot when it's back to back to back. Just my 0.02$ as I believe these little flights are a pain, but the gate upgrades makes them a little more tolerable for us who take many of those all year long.
Nov 13, 2019, 8:44 pm
#85
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Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 116
I'm pretty sure that there is indeed a group of SE's who have connections to AC executives and who snitch or complain to them about any sweet spots or loopholes the kettle flyers may use that are in competition with SE benefits or endanger their sense of being "special" and above the rest :P
Nov 13, 2019, 9:08 pm
#86
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That was my suspicion as well. I'm a Canadian citizen which obviously AC can tell from my res/billing address yet they see I've hit UA*G status. Presumably there is an algorithm running in the background that's must assume that I'm loyal to OAL and thinks, "Let's show this Canadian ex-pat what he's missing out not flying AC and gaining Altitude status by opping him up to J".
The opup algorithm, while not published, is quite well known.
First, it requires an oversell in a cabin. No oversell, no opup.
Second, it happens after all people eligible for upgrades have been processed. This is all eUps, deadheads, etc.
Third, the order is:
1. Nonrevs, in some order I don't know or care, likely based on start date, or some combination of start date and priority code (i.e. C1 would get it before C2).
2. Cabin, status, fare class, check-in time. Just like eUps.
Within "status", OAL *G seems to rank between E50K and E35K.
However, opups are not automated (unless they've changed the process), and I've seen, on numerous occasions, a GTE Standard fare no-status pax get a J seat, because I'm VDBing, but they won't process it until they KNOW the seat is required, which means the plane is fully boarded. YBYL, as I often say.
I'm pretty sure that there is indeed a group of SE's who have connections to AC executives and who snitch or complain to them about any sweet spots or loopholes the kettle flyers may use that are in competition with SE benefits or endanger their sense of being "special" and above the rest :P
What a sneaky trick that we should all report to Calin. I'm surprised more people aren't doing it.
Nov 13, 2019, 9:12 pm
#87
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: YVR
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The same algorithm that puts UA*G in a middle seat in row 44 on a latitute fare?
I doubt there is anything more to AC opups than dumb luck, flying routes/times without much OPM (ie. Altitude) traffic, or flights that are oversold in Y, empty up front.
Who is we? Is there a secret SE club that tattles to AC about other airline top tiers cheapening their precious AC domestic J cabin, or the luxurious longhaul PY cabin and eating their never expiring banana bread?
Clearly they are not "nearly 0"
I doubt there is anything more to AC opups than dumb luck, flying routes/times without much OPM (ie. Altitude) traffic, or flights that are oversold in Y, empty up front.
Who is we? Is there a secret SE club that tattles to AC about other airline top tiers cheapening their precious AC domestic J cabin, or the luxurious longhaul PY cabin and eating their never expiring banana bread?
Clearly they are not "nearly 0"
You’re right - I was clearly wrong. That’s why I explicitly said “I stand corrected”
The experience of yours and James does not match mine, but then, I almost never fly in Y (eupgrades out my ears) so the opportunity for me is less than many.
In any case - glad they take care of you. It is very rare for UA to do anything like that in my favour.
And again - seriously - sorry. I really was just being silly.
Nov 14, 2019, 12:26 am
#88
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ideally YOW, but probably not
Programs: AC SE*MM
Posts: 1,827
I dont think so, in <20 flights, I have 6 AC with opups in last ~3 years on transborders, including A320 and another on a widebody. Ialso have 1 intl J (YUL-LHR), 2 intl PY (YYZ-CDG, YUL-PVG) All but one, on lowest fares. There are lots of stories in the UA forum of AC opups.
I guess only AC elites 'cheapen' the front cabin, not foreign elites on K/A fares
I guess only AC elites 'cheapen' the front cabin, not foreign elites on K/A fares
I've cheapened the cabin
three times on intl J routes myself this year via op-up. But I've done literally dozens of intl flights in Y/PY in 2019 alone, and for better or worse I'm fairly close to the top of the op-up list.
Nov 14, 2019, 10:39 am
#89
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
Either dumb luck or dumb AC IT
. Let's see how op-ups are handled when Amadeus, Amadeus arrives!I thought the same way until I saw the service offered on board :
Not bad for an hour long domestic flight. Sadly, I was unable to find the US Airways club at PHL (despite me asking several people on the ground there). Oh well, I guess off to the CoUniHound lounge then!
I hope you're joking. Have you seen any AC system that's even remotely intelligent enough to do something like that?
The opup algorithm, while not published, is quite well known.
First, it requires an oversell in a cabin. No oversell, no opup.
Second, it happens after all people eligible for upgrades have been processed. This is all eUps, deadheads, etc.
Third, the order is:
1. Nonrevs, in some order I don't know or care, likely based on start date, or some combination of start date and priority code (i.e. C1 would get it before C2).
2. Cabin, status, fare class, check-in time. Just like eUps.
Within "status", OAL *G seems to rank between E50K and E35K.
However, opups are not automated (unless they've changed the process), and I've seen, on numerous occasions, a GTE Standard fare no-status pax get a J seat, because I'm VDBing, but they won't process it until they KNOW the seat is required, which means the plane is fully boarded. YBYL, as I often say.
Ah yes, the loophole of getting an opup on an overbooked flight. I also like to sneakily book K fares 6 months out on other *A airlines, knowing full well they'll be overbooked at departure, and I'll get an opup.
What a sneaky trick that we should all report to Calin. I'm surprised more people aren't doing it.
The opup algorithm, while not published, is quite well known.
First, it requires an oversell in a cabin. No oversell, no opup.
Second, it happens after all people eligible for upgrades have been processed. This is all eUps, deadheads, etc.
Third, the order is:
1. Nonrevs, in some order I don't know or care, likely based on start date, or some combination of start date and priority code (i.e. C1 would get it before C2).
2. Cabin, status, fare class, check-in time. Just like eUps.
Within "status", OAL *G seems to rank between E50K and E35K.
However, opups are not automated (unless they've changed the process), and I've seen, on numerous occasions, a GTE Standard fare no-status pax get a J seat, because I'm VDBing, but they won't process it until they KNOW the seat is required, which means the plane is fully boarded. YBYL, as I often say.
Ah yes, the loophole of getting an opup on an overbooked flight. I also like to sneakily book K fares 6 months out on other *A airlines, knowing full well they'll be overbooked at departure, and I'll get an opup.
What a sneaky trick that we should all report to Calin. I'm surprised more people aren't doing it.
. As you point out whilst there may be a procedure or even a system for handling op-ups it seems to be left to the discretion of the gate agent. In my case I didn't board late, I boarded in Zone 1 (since I'm UA Gold on a UA Codeshare) and was handed the new boarding card when I scanned my boarding pass and it booped at me so there was no YBYL factor there at all. Sometimes I do board towards the end to prevent the spread of gate lice but in this instance it was business as usual for AC (i.e. delay the flight for many minutes whilst the boarding line queues up more and more).Are you flying those J routes on Wednesdays in the middle of July or something? Because as canadiancow notes, op-ups are only occurring on those intl routes when the back is oversold and the front has a bunch of room; so much room in fact that they clear the eUps, then the AC SE / 75K / 50K crowd is op-upped and they still have a need to move you. Which means you're on mainline routes in leisure heavy times of the year and days of the week when there is far less OPM J and far fewer AC elites than normal.
I've cheapened the cabin three times on intl J routes myself this year via op-up. But I've done literally dozens of intl flights in Y/PY in 2019 alone, and for better or worse I'm fairly close to the top of the op-up list.
I've cheapened the cabin
three times on intl J routes myself this year via op-up. But I've done literally dozens of intl flights in Y/PY in 2019 alone, and for better or worse I'm fairly close to the top of the op-up list.Safe Travels,
James
Nov 14, 2019, 10:54 am
#90
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I can assure you I was on the highest qwality K fare and was op-up at the gate for that flight to Philly . As you point out whilst there may be a procedure or even a system for handling op-ups it seems to be left to the discretion of the gate agent. In my case I didn't board late, I boarded in Zone 1 (since I'm UA Gold on a UA Codeshare) and was handed the new boarding card when I scanned my boarding pass and it booped at me so there was no YBYL factor there at all. Sometimes I do board towards the end to prevent the spread of gate lice but in this instance it was business as usual for AC (i.e. delay the flight for many minutes whilst the boarding line queues up more and more).
. As you point out whilst there may be a procedure or even a system for handling op-ups it seems to be left to the discretion of the gate agent. In my case I didn't board late, I boarded in Zone 1 (since I'm UA Gold on a UA Codeshare) and was handed the new boarding card when I scanned my boarding pass and it booped at me so there was no YBYL factor there at all. Sometimes I do board towards the end to prevent the spread of gate lice but in this instance it was business as usual for AC (i.e. delay the flight for many minutes whilst the boarding line queues up more and more).And you're not entitled to zone 1 on AC, so stop doing it.