Stranger

canopus27

I agree.

There are two separate terms which people seem to be confusing - "oversold" and "positive space". Those things are different.

At the risk of getting these definitions wrong....

Oversold means that AC will no longer sell any seats on the plane. Everyone seems to agree that the flight in question is *not* oversold.

"Positive space" means that they have sold fewer economy seats than they have on the plane.

The difference is that they can predict (with surprising accuracy) how many people will show up for a flight (taking into account missed connections, flat tires, people asking up ill, etc).

They can also​​​ predict (with surprising accuracy) how many people they can accommodate on a flight (taking into account the fact that they may have unsold J and PY seats).

If the number of people who they predict will show up, is more than the number of people they predict they can accommodate ... then they won't sell any more seats for it. That flight is now "oversold".

​​​​​​​If, however, they have sold 201 Y tickets for a plane that has 200 Y seats - but there are also 7 open J seats, and they predict they will get 4 no-shows ... then they believe they can accommodate everyone still - in fact, they will continue to sell more tickets. That plane is *not* oversold. However, because they sold more tickets than Y seats (in this example, 200 ticket), it does not have "positive space"

​​​​​​​A plane needs to have positive space for them to offer IKK to it. My example above is not oversold, but does not have positive space, and so you would not be able to IKK it.

canadiancow

It means that you're asking a plumber how to change a light switch.

I can't tell you how many games of broken telephone I've played with AC agents when I start in the wrong place. You ask the concierge X. The concierge asks their lead Y. The lead asks a knowledgeable person Z, who could have answered X, but was never given the opportunity to answer X. The answer, A, then gets passed back as B, then as C to the passenger.

In the end, you have a broken answer to a question you never asked.

That's certainly not true. Oversold means that it's booked beyond capacity. You can't get to +2 without selling seats when it's already oversold.

The IKK perk is very clear. You have access to any unsold seat in Y, and additional seats in J. Though I'm still perplexed they don't even mention PY.

I'm just going to revert back to my typical answer here. The best way to tell if a flight has positive space both in Y and overall (I believe Y3 J-3 would not have IKK) is to check Aeroplan. If you can IKK it, there's positive space. If not, there isn't.

K9 does not mean it's not oversold.

llbean

I agree with you - except that the answer from the concierge contradicted that. What is crazy is the SE Concierge service doesnt know the rules.

BTW this is the latest from the concierge team - basically saying there are seats but its Aeroplan issue:


We have reached out to all our contacts regarding this matter and unfortunately they have advised us that it cannot be done on our side.




The flight currently has open seats in economy, however we will not be able to make your priority rewards reservation for you. You will have to contact Aeroplan directly.





We apologize that we cannot assist you further with this matter.




Regards,






I

canadiancow

Yes. The concierge probably sees Y9.

Again, you're asking a plumber to rewire your house.

llbean

Just as an update to close this thread.

I got a phone call from AC customer relations today.
They did a complete investigation into this. Here is what they found:

1. There was positive space on this flight. Seats were available to be booked using IKK. It was an IT issue with flights being loaded from AC to AE/
2. They went back to the conversations. They admitted I was given the wrong info by both the AC concierge and AE agents. They have contacted the concierge to help correct their understanding.
3. She apologized and offered to make the booking for me.
4. They offered me a gift card

canadiancow

Here's a new one.

AC 847 MUC-YYZ Sunday March 15: J9 C9 D9 Z9 P9 R9 O9 E9 N9 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H9 Q9 V9 W9 S9 T9 L9 K9

There is no regular J/PY/Y space. There is Y IKK. There is no J/PY IKK.