Question: Misconnected at YYZ, full of confused people, no help, can't get thru, what to do?
#46
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,156
OMW agents are vastly different than just "priority access to an AC customer service agent."
They function more as independent travel agents and will book you on the next flight, (almost) any airline even competitors paid ticket. Unlike an AC hotel voucher, they can book many other hotels just not a low contracted rates sometimes far away from the airport.
They function more as independent travel agents and will book you on the next flight, (almost) any airline even competitors paid ticket. Unlike an AC hotel voucher, they can book many other hotels just not a low contracted rates sometimes far away from the airport.
If I am in an IROP, I want to be able to just make one phone call, without being put on a long hold, to re-book my next flight, arrange hotel, meal vouchers, transportation, all in that one single phone call and not having to queue to see an AC agent with about 70 other travellers ahead of me or stay up to 3:00am to try to get through to an AC reservation agent.
#47
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,804
I think it's more that "self-congratulating profitable airline don't see a need for providing basic services" as long as cheapening the product seemingly makes customers happier. If they would find out customers take their business elsewhere they would surely improve service... But it seems no matter how badly they are treated, they keep coming back anyway. So where is the incentive for airlines to provide better service? But no, it's not that I like it. Seems just to be reality. Plus, it's clear that the FT demographics don't fit in that category.
#48
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,156
People are accustomed to certain inclusions when purchasing items or services. For instance, if you dine at a restaurant in Canada it is expected that tap water at your table and access to a toilet will be provided free of charge. These inclusions make transactions easier because every time you purchase that service you don't have to spend time inquiring whether you need to bring your own toilet paper to the restaurant or purchase it a la carte for $20/roll (available at time of booking only).
Every airline in the world provides, or at least claims to provide, timely rebooking assistance to passengers during IRROPs. It's unreasonable to expect Air Canada passengers to be responsible to know that Air Canada apparently will not do this except for an extra surcharge, which is payable at booking and only on a small subset of itineraries (within NA) and when booking directly with Air Canada.
If Air Canada wants to unbundle to this extent it's their right to do so but it should be done in a way that is clear, consistent and understandable for passengers, and OMW is none of that.
The large portion of travelers who book through Air Canada's authorized agents may not even be aware of the existence of OMW.
International itineraries aren't eligible for OMW.
OMW does not even help with tasks that can only be completed by an airport agent.
OMW is marketed as a convenient add-on not a basic requirement for acceptable service.
Every airline in the world provides, or at least claims to provide, timely rebooking assistance to passengers during IRROPs. It's unreasonable to expect Air Canada passengers to be responsible to know that Air Canada apparently will not do this except for an extra surcharge, which is payable at booking and only on a small subset of itineraries (within NA) and when booking directly with Air Canada.
If Air Canada wants to unbundle to this extent it's their right to do so but it should be done in a way that is clear, consistent and understandable for passengers, and OMW is none of that.
The large portion of travelers who book through Air Canada's authorized agents may not even be aware of the existence of OMW.
International itineraries aren't eligible for OMW.
OMW does not even help with tasks that can only be completed by an airport agent.
OMW is marketed as a convenient add-on not a basic requirement for acceptable service.
Btw OMW is not available to tickets sold through travel agents. One may buy OMW only if the ticket is purchased through AC directly.
#49
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson; Avis PC
Posts: 35,255
Please, can we stop talk about OMW - it's moot at this point and has been covered in many other threads.
Plus, as pointed out through past and current threads in this forum, OMW is restricted and is not going to be a viable suggestion/solution for many.
And the OP is asking what can be done after the fact, not before it. Has the OP done everything correct/ticked off all checkboxes in their power/knowledge regarding AC service recovery?
Plus, as pointed out through past and current threads in this forum, OMW is restricted and is not going to be a viable suggestion/solution for many.
And the OP is asking what can be done after the fact, not before it. Has the OP done everything correct/ticked off all checkboxes in their power/knowledge regarding AC service recovery?
#50
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
I think it's more that "self-congratulating profitable airline don't see a need for providing basic services" as long as cheapening the product seemingly makes customers happier. If they would find out customers take their business elsewhere they would surely improve service... But it seems no matter how badly they are treated, they keep coming back anyway. So where is the incentive for airlines to provide better service? But no, it's not that I like it. Seems just to be reality. Plus, it's clear that the FT demographics don't fit in that category.
Using a service =/= happy with the service. Ask the telecoms with their similar marginally competitive market. AC doesn't bother improving service because it has an unnatural level of market/pricing power. More akin to a 1970s third world aviation market than anything we see in the US, UK, EU or Australia (or other first world or even third world jurisdictions today).
People need to get to where they need to get to, and the governments active role in curtailing supply and shaping traffic flow means "choice" becomes an illusion fairly quickly. AC knows that. Even you know that. Whether it conforms with whatever argument you're trying to push is an entirely different matter.
#51
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,970
I don't know how you Canadians put up with this kind of **** (I love Canada, went to school here and came to see the Canada Day parade.)
#52
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: YQR
Posts: 2,743
Every airline in the world provides, or at least claims to provide, timely rebooking assistance to passengers during IRROPs. It's unreasonable to expect Air Canada passengers to be responsible to know that Air Canada apparently will not do this except for an extra surcharge, which is payable at booking and only on a small subset of itineraries (within NA) and when booking directly with Air Canada.
If Air Canada wants to unbundle to this extent it's their right to do so but it should be done in a way that is clear, consistent and understandable for passengers, and OMW is none of that.
.
Agreed.
Can we consider something like basic customer service during irops to be unbundled when it never existed in the first place?
#53
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: YYT
Programs: AC P25
Posts: 269
I think it's more that "self-congratulating profitable airline don't see a need for providing basic services" as long as cheapening the product seemingly makes customers happier. If they would find out customers take their business elsewhere they would surely improve service... But it seems no matter how badly they are treated, they keep coming back anyway. So where is the incentive for airlines to provide better service? But no, it's not that I like it. Seems just to be reality. Plus, it's clear that the FT demographics don't fit in that category.
If you want to fly from YQX, YVO, YQU, etc etc etc anywhere not one of the top 7 or 8 airports in the country to basically anywhere outside Canada, you have few options. You can try to tag together some sort of Westjet/Delta/Skyteam partner ridiculous combination with 4 transfers in 3 countries taking 33 hours or you can drive a thousand kilometres (plus boat rides for some of us) to get to a place with even minimal competition which is directly reflected in pricing, or you can take the one price offered by AC for the only sensible itinerary possible. AC knows this and that’s why it’s often $1500 to fly for eg. YYT-YYZ-XYZ when the same YYZ-XYZ is $500. Or same flight as USA-YYZ-XYZ is $250. I’m all for market economics but with limited competition it’s just ridiculous. I don’t know the answer but I’m not obtuse enough to think it’s all hunky dory.
AC has us Canadians outside Toronto and other large cities held by the Cajohnes and it’s laughable when people who live in hub cities with actual other carriers try to tell a large portion of the population to just “take our business elsewhere”.
#56
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,804
Competition in the airline business? Dream on. Alas, the competition mantra is way overdone. Whenever it's a few large players against te millions of us, classical market theory is dead, no matter what ideological BS they serve you. There is competition in the barber, hairdresser, plumber business. Not in the cell phone, airline, even auromobile markets One of the key assumptions of classical theory is that the entry cost is zero. Please reread Adam Smith (not our, the 18th century one) and the classics.
#57
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: TK *G
Posts: 3,099
If people can’t fly on a competitor, and they really can’t stand AC, they will cut their travels, which not only hurts AC but more importantly Canada. AC and government can keep the competitors out as they wish, until no major foreign airlines care to compete with AC or operate in Canada.
I have cut back my NA travel significantly and I haven’t used AC for international travels for more than 2 years. I am glad that I live in YYZ so I have options, but if I don’t then I will either move or change my lifestyle. In no way am I willing to tolerate this level of service.
I have cut back my NA travel significantly and I haven’t used AC for international travels for more than 2 years. I am glad that I live in YYZ so I have options, but if I don’t then I will either move or change my lifestyle. In no way am I willing to tolerate this level of service.
#58
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: YYT
Programs: AC P25
Posts: 269
Competition in the airline business? Dream on. Alas, the competition mantra is way overdone. Whenever it's a few large players against te millions of us, classical market theory is dead, no matter what ideological BS they serve you. There is competition in the barber, hairdresser, plumber business. Not in the cell phone, airline, even auromobile markets One of the key assumptions of classical theory is that the entry cost is zero. Please reread Adam Smith (not our, the 18th century one) and the classics.
#59
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,804
I was simply responding to your post that suggested Canadians are “happy” to keep going back to AC so why would they change, which for this Canadian and many people he knows is not true would certainly welcome a choice. You spent time blaming Canadians for not choosing the competition, then state well there is no competition of course. So which is it?
No, really I blame people who blindly shop for "the lowest fare." Not just blindly but stupidly without doing their homework, without looking at what they get or not. And BTW, it's not the major airlines which wished it that way, for a long term they lost at the game and they were late to join. And no, it's not specifically or even particularly Canadians either. Or being inconsistent by buying cheap and being surprised when they find what they got is actually cheap.
#60
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: YYT
Programs: AC P25
Posts: 269
No, really I blame people who blindly shop for "the lowest fare." Not just blindly but stupidly without doing their homework, without looking at what they get or not. And BTW, it's not the major airlines which wished it that way, for a long term they lost at the game and they were late to join. And no, it's not specifically or even particularly Canadians either. Or being inconsistent by buying cheap and being surprised when they find what they got is actually cheap.
my problem isn’t so much that these problems exist. It’s that they have existed for a long time and there is no attempt to correct because it eats into profits. In an uncompetitive environment, it’s exactly when something needs to be done to protect the gouging of consumers. There is obviously no real appetite for this in Canada since Ac is in Quebec and we can’t upset them or never get elected so here we are.