Shareholder

Yes, AC did have a 2 and 3 J configuration on their A320s. However, CP put 2 and 2 on theirs, and AC soon reconfigured, though at first they just did not sell the centre seat on the 3 side where CP was competing.

80 seats at 2 by 2 would require 20 rows at 40-inch pitch, or 67-feet plus washrooms, cloak/storage and galley. A 737-600 is too short [SAS configures it with a 3-row C section -- curiously 2 by 3 -- and 15 rows of Y], 737-700 might do it [24 rows all Y] but it'd be a bit tight. A 737-800 would handle the job with room to spare, as SAS manages 24 rows of C -- 2 by 3 -- and two-and-two-halves Y rows: 2 washrooms on the other half-side in the back, and one up front. Or MD81/82 would do it [SAS has 32 rows of 2 by 3 all Y]; MD93 [34 rows of 2 by 3 all Y].

How is JETBLUE configured? Isn't it "almost J" without the frills?

So let's see how the numbers cruch: 80 x $400 = $32,000 @ 70% load factor = $22,400 return or $11,200 one-way.

Can you cover your costs at this price?

• Aircraft Ground handling at both ends
• Passenger Check-in/Gate handling
• Landing and Airport fees
• NAVCAN and FAA fees
• Cleaning and Grooming
• Catering and Drinks
• IFE Royalties
• Pilots
• FAs
• Fuel
• Depreciation
• Corporate Overheads
• Reservations and Ticketing Services
• Marketing, Advertising, Promotion and TA Commissions

As for an all-J flight between YYZ-YVR, wasn't that the idea behind ROOTSAIR? At least offer Premium-level front, middle and back cabins? Hold on, maybe AC will still move ahead with ELITE? In the meantime, there is HMY or whatever that new carrier is called.

[This message has been edited by Shareholder (edited 07-05-2003).]

flyingstudent

Actually, I think this is a fairly risky business.

If you actually go ahead and do it, you should get a 5-abreast aircraft (i.e. B717 or DC9 or MD87) and put 4 seats in each row. This way, you only sacrifice one seat in each row, rather than 2 seats on the B737/A320/B757. Plus, your flight times would definitely have to be better than the other charter carriers. It seems that most of the LAS charter leaves YVR early evening (6-8pm window) and return to YVR after midnight. If you time your flights right, i.e. leave sometime in the afternoon and arrive back to YVR in the evening, this would prove popular to many older folks.

Maybe you can do a YVR-LAX-YVR in the morning and do a YVR-LAS-YVR in the afternoon?

Time Schedule:
YVR-LAX 8am-11am
LAX-YVR 12pm-3pm

YVR-LAS 4pm-7pm
LAS-YVR 8pm-10pm

Something like that would be ok.

jral

My guess is YVR-PSP, YYC-PSP, YVR-PHX, YEG/YYC-PHX & or course YYZ/YUL - Florida would be great J (without frills!) markets.

Can I get involved with your venture???

mtacchi

Shareholder,

Pretty close on the numbers.

Everyone else, 2-2 seating not full 40' probably 35-37 depending on layout, washroom positioning, ect.
Full catering, free booze, and maybe a YVR lounge.


Basing loads on 55% factor.

Excuse typing @ W SEA on lodgenet compuertv deal.
Marc

cslusarc

Sounds decent.

If you market your flights to well off seniors, you will be successful.

parnel

SH you forgot one expense-- the ad fee Randy will charge for the space used here.

B767

Jetblue is a LCC with benefits. Seating is 3 & 3 on an A320, pitch is 32" (more at emergency exits). Every seat is leather and has a "free' personal TV (ever wonder what was supposed to go in the seat backs on AC's A330 & A340 Y seats?) with 22 channels of live Direct TV (NBC, CNN, HGTV, Kids channels etc). Headsets are free and yours to take with you. Complimentary soft drinks, juices, water and snacks are served. Planes are clean, service is friendly and efficient. I took a flight in April from Buffalo to Ft Lauderdale and the one way fare was $ 86.00 USD, all taxes, surcharges etc included. I had to delay my flight by one day, no change fee at all. Was very, very impressed and would fly them again in a minute. To me this is the model for a LCC that AC should be duplicating in Canada. Be a different LCC carrier instead of trying to compete with Westjet , Air Transat, Skyservice. They will continue to kill AC if everything is equal so be different, LEAD not follow, sell not just take orders!

keithguy

What is 'Almost J without the frills'? Is that not an oxymoron?

It might do some good to have at look at JetBlue's website.

By the way, JetBlue's fleet is currently configured 3-3 with 32 inches, 28 rows of all leather seating with DirecTV.

Does that qualify as 'Almost J without the frills'?

FlyerAl

JetBlue is not "almost J". It's a discount carrier with DirecTV in every seat - similar to Frontier in DEN. There are no meals - just snacks.

All the majors match B6's fares from BUF, so I would rather fly US or NW/CO at the same fare and earn my miles and elite benefits than be treated like a "commoner"

As for all-J to LAS, it might be difficult to compete with discount competitors like AS & HP. They offer free upgrades to elites and sell cheap upgrades at the gate to non-elites. Even the well-to-do leisure traveller can be very frugal when it comes to vacation expenses!

Shareholder

I guess not many of you have flown J/C in Europe where most carriers sell an "almost J" product that is similar to JETBLUE's. The seats are still 3 by 3 [2x3 on rear-jets], the pitch is not much more than 32-inches, and the only thing distinguishing intra-European J/C from economy is the enhanced meal. JETBLUE distinguishes itself from the other LCCs by providing greater pitch, better seats, IFE and a reasonable basic level of snack and drink in the low price. In other words, it treats all customers with a degree of dignity, not as cattle. Hence my analogy. Having flown the carrier, I well know its level of service, and image it tries to convey. It is going after the business crowd too, and doesn't rely on just cheap seats and cheerleaders-cum-FAs to create its image in the marketplace. It gives the fullest service possible within the economic parameters of LCC.

Next time you are on LH or BA or most other European carriers, take a look at their J/C narrow body cabins and tell me how close to J on AC it looks.

FlyerAl

Doesn't BA block the middle seat in the Club Europe cabin to make the seats wider? How is that similar to JetBlue? While their seats may be leather, their pitch and seat width is no different than the average U.S. carrier coach standard. It's fine on short hops like BUF-JFK where the competition flies regional jets, but I think I'll pass on JFK-LAS.

Rad456

Sounds like an interesting idea. I can see it working well to places like PSP and SAN. I believe there are no direct flights (scheduled or charter) from Western Canada to these places and PSP always seems expensive to get to. In Edmonton we have the charters to Vegas and I believe the LAX flight is supposed to come back. The Vegas charters from here can go as low as $69 + tax = about $260, for last minute bookings

keithguy

What it comes down to is that it's really hard to have an "almost J" product when the entire cabin is all economy/coach class.

JetBlue's pitch is pretty much in line with other low cost carriers in the US, at 32 inches, for the moment.

But then again, if you want to call all economy class "almost J", I suppose you are free to do so.