Mar 12, 2019, 11:26 am
Last edit by: yyznomad
Latest updates from aircanada.com
Read below for more details.
Air Canada Timetable Effective June 27, 2019 to September 29, 2019 (AC's link: https://services.aircanada.com/porta...metable-en.pdf)
Air Canada Timetable Effective June 20, 2019 to September 22, 2019
Air Canada Timetable Effective June 13, 2019 to September 15, 2019
Air Canada Timetable Effective June 6, 2019 to September 8, 2019
Air Canada Timetable Effective May 30, 2019 to September 1, 2019
Air Canada Timetable Effective May 23, 2019 to August 25, 2019
Air Canada Timetable Effective May 16, 2019 to August 18, 2019
Air Canada Timetable Effective May 9, 2019 to August 11, 2019
Air Canada Timetable Effective May 2, 2019 to August 4, 2019
Air Canada Timetable Effective April 25, 2019 to July 28, 2019
Air Canada Timetable Effective April 18, 2019 to July 21, 2019
Air Canada Timetable Effective April 11, 2019 to July 14, 2019
Air Canada Timetable Effective March 28, 2019 to June 30, 2019
May 29, 2019
If you'd like to make other plansIf you currently have a reservation for a flight between now and September 02, 2019 that was scheduled to be operated by a Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, we've implemented a policy that makes it possible for you to make voluntary changes to your itinerary within three (3) weeks of your original travel dates.If you are impacted by this policy, you may contact Air Canada Reservations (1-888-247-2262). If you are travelling in the next 72 hours, please call Air Canada Reservations number at the top of this notice. If you purchased your ticket with AeroplanExternal site which may not meet accessibility guidelines., or Air Canada Vacations or your travel agent, please contact them directly.
****
March 19, 2019
UPDATED - INFORMATION ON IMPACTED ROUTES
**********
UPDATED - Air Canada Responds to Transport Canada's Closure of Canadian Airspace to the Boeing 737 MAX Aircraft
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...e-closure.html
March 19, 2019
If you are travelling within the next 72 hours, call:
1-833-354-5963
If you booked through a Travel Agency, please call them for immediate assistance
In compliance with Transport Canada’s safety notice closing Canadian airspace to Boeing 737 MAX aircraft operations, Air Canada has grounded its 24 737 MAX aircraft until further notice.
Air Canada is now updating its April and May schedule to further optimize its fleet and re-accommodate customers. Because the timeline for the return to service of the 737 Max is unknown, for planning purposes and to provide customers certainty for booking and travel, Air Canada is removing all 737 MAX aircraft from its schedule until at least July 1, 2019. A summary of schedule changes for April is posted below in the following question and answer: “What is Air Canada doing to reschedule customers?”. Additional schedule changes will be posted as warranted.
If you'd like to make other plans
If you currently have a reservation for a flight that was scheduled to be operated by a Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, we've implemented a policy that makes it possible for you to make voluntary changes to your itinerary within three (3) weeks of your original travel dates.
If you are impacted by this policy, you may contact Air Canada Reservations (1-888-247-2262). If you are travelling in the next 72 hours, please call Air Canada Reservations number at the top of this notice.
If you purchased your ticket with Aeroplan, or Air Canada Vacations or your travel agent, please contact them directly.
*********
March 13, 2019
Air Canada confirmed today that it will comply immediately with Transport Canada's safety notice closing Canadian airspace to Boeing 737 MAX aircraft operations until further notice.
Air Canada's cancellation and rebooking policies are in place with full fee waiver for affected customers. We are working to rebook impacted customers as soon as possible. Given the magnitude of our 737 MAX operations which on average carry nine to twelve thousand customers per day, customers can expect delays in rebooking and in reaching Air Canada Call Centres. Priority will be given to customers travelling within the next 72 hours. We appreciate our customers' patience.
If you'd like to know what type of aircraft you are flying on, simply retrieve your booking from the My Bookings tab, then click on the 'Details' link in the Flight Details section. We also advise you to check the status of your flight before heading to the airport.
We fully support Transport Canada's decision and will continue to work with them towards a resolution of this situation as soon as possible.
Alternate Travel Plans
If you currently have a reservation for a flight operated by a Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, we've implemented a policy that makes it possible for you to make voluntary changes to your itinerary within three (3) weeks of your original travel dates.
If you are impacted by this policy, you may contact Air Canada Reservations (1-888-247-2262).
If you purchased your ticket with AeroplanExternal site which may not meet accessibility guidelines., or Air Canada Vacations or your Travel agent, please contact them directly Some questions you may have are below with our answers, but if you can't find what you need, contact us at 1-888-247-2262, or reach out to us on on FacebookExternal site which may not meet accessibility guidelines. or TwitterExternal site which may not meet accessibility guidelines..
How many Boeing 737 MAX aircraft does Air Canada have?
Air Canada has a fleet of 24 Boeing 737 MAX-8 aircraft, which have been in operation since 2017. We have a total fleet of 400 aircraft (including 24 737MAX), comprising Air Canada mainline, Air Canada Rouge and Air Canada Express aircraft.
Where do the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft fly to?
These aircraft operate flights across North America, to Mexico, the Caribbean, Hawaii, as well as from Atlantic Canada to London Heathrow.
How many Boeing 737 MAX flights are there each day, and how many passengers are affected?
We typically operate approximately 75 Boeing 737 MAX flights daily out of a total schedule of approximately 1,600 daily flights system-wide, representing less than six percent of our total flying.
We have a total fleet of 400 aircraft (including 24 Boeing 737 MAX), comprising Air Canada mainline, Air Canada Rouge and Air Canada Express aircraft.
What is Air Canada doing to reschedule customers?
We are making adjustments to our schedule to minimize the disruption to customers as much as possible, by optimizing the deployment of the rest of our fleet and looking at alternative options, including accommodating customers on other airlines.
As an example of some of our adjustments to Boeing 737 MAX flights cancelled, we have re-scheduled widebody aircraft to serve Hawaii starting today, March 13. Some flights will operate as scheduled with mainline or Air Canada Rouge aircraft, such as on Montreal-Martinique and Montreal-Guadeloupe. Other routes, notably Halifax-London and St. John's-London are cancelled in the short term, with customers being re-routed through our Montreal and Toronto hubs.
What should I do right now?
As changes are finalized in our flight schedule, customers whose flight times or flight numbers have changed can expect to receive an email detailing their updated itinerary. This information is also available in My Bookings on the Air Canada App.
If you are travelling soon, you can also contact us or your travel agent. Please understand that priority is being given to customers travelling within the next 72 hours.
We have also put in place a rebooking policy, space permitting, and without additional fees for affected customers. Given the magnitude of our Boeing 737 MAX operations, which on average carry nine to twelve thousand customers per day, customers can expect delays in rebooking and in reaching Air Canada's Call Centres.
Where can I go to for more information?
If you would like to know what type of aircraft you are flying on, simply retrieve your booking from the My Bookings tab, then click on the 'Details' link in the Flight Details section.
If you are travelling soon, you can contact us, reach out to our social media teams on FacebookExternal site which may not meet accessibility guidelines. or TwitterExternal site which may not meet accessibility guidelines., or call your travel agent.
We also advise you to check the status of your flight before going to the airport.
We thank all of our customers for their patience.
Will Air Canada cover my out-of-pocket expenses such as additional accommodation costs that I may incur as a result of these disruptions?
Our normal protocol for irregular events which are out of our control is in effect. We are regrettably unable to reimburse for such expenses.
****
MONTREAL, March 13, 2019 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada confirmed today that it will comply immediately with Transport Canada's safety notice closing Canadian airspace to Boeing 737 MAX aircraft operations until further notice.
Air Canada's cancellation and rebooking policies are in place with full fee waiver for affected customers. We are working to rebook impacted customers as soon as possible but given the magnitude of our 737 MAX operations which on average carry nine to twelve thousand customers per day, customers can expect delays in rebooking and in reaching Air Canada call centres and we appreciate our customers' patience.
Customers are further advised to check the status of their flight on aircanada.com prior to going to the airport.
We fully support this decision and will continue to work with Transport Canada towards resolution of this situation as soon as possible.
SOURCE Air Canada
For further information: Isabelle Arthur (Montréal), [email protected], 514 422-5788; Peter Fitzpatrick (Toronto), [email protected], 416 263-5576; Angela Mah (Vancouver), [email protected], 604 270-5741; Internet: aircanada.com
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2019...7-MAX-Aircraft
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...to-london.html
Originally Posted by https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/book/travel-news-and-updates/2019/737-airspace-closure.html
If you currently have a reservation for a flight between now and September 02, 2019 that was scheduled to be operated by a Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, we've implemented a policy that makes it possible for you to make voluntary changes to your itinerary within three (3) weeks of your original travel dates.
Air Canada Timetable Effective June 27, 2019 to September 29, 2019 (AC's link: https://services.aircanada.com/porta...metable-en.pdf)
May 29, 2019
If you are travelling within the next 72 hours, call:
1-833-354-5963
If you booked through a Travel Agency, please call them for immediate assistance
In compliance with Transport Canada's safety notice closing Canadian airspace to Boeing 737 MAX aircraft operations, Air Canada has grounded its 24 737 MAX aircraft until further notice.Air Canada is now updating its May, June and July schedule to further optimize its fleet and re-accommodate customers. Because the timeline for the return to service of the 737 Max is unknown, for planning purposes and to provide customers certainty for booking and travel, Air Canada is removing all 737 MAX aircraft from its schedule until at least September 02, 2019. A summary of schedule changes for April is posted below in the following question and answer: "What is Air Canada doing to reschedule customers?". Additional schedule changes will be posted as warranted.1-833-354-5963
If you booked through a Travel Agency, please call them for immediate assistance
- Air Canada's cancellation and rebooking policies are in place with full fee waiver for affected customers.
- We are working to rebook impacted customers as soon as possible.
- Given the magnitude of our 737 MAX operations which on average carry nine to twelve thousand customers per day, customers can expect delays in rebooking and in reaching Air Canada Call Centres.
- If you are travelling within the next 72 hours, please call the number at the top of this page.
- If you booked through a Travel Agent, you may contact them directly for assistance.
If you'd like to make other plansIf you currently have a reservation for a flight between now and September 02, 2019 that was scheduled to be operated by a Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, we've implemented a policy that makes it possible for you to make voluntary changes to your itinerary within three (3) weeks of your original travel dates.If you are impacted by this policy, you may contact Air Canada Reservations (1-888-247-2262). If you are travelling in the next 72 hours, please call Air Canada Reservations number at the top of this notice. If you purchased your ticket with AeroplanExternal site which may not meet accessibility guidelines., or Air Canada Vacations or your travel agent, please contact them directly.
****
March 19, 2019
UPDATED - INFORMATION ON IMPACTED ROUTES
**********
UPDATED - Air Canada Responds to Transport Canada's Closure of Canadian Airspace to the Boeing 737 MAX Aircraft
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...e-closure.html
March 19, 2019
If you are travelling within the next 72 hours, call:
1-833-354-5963
If you booked through a Travel Agency, please call them for immediate assistance
In compliance with Transport Canada’s safety notice closing Canadian airspace to Boeing 737 MAX aircraft operations, Air Canada has grounded its 24 737 MAX aircraft until further notice.
Air Canada is now updating its April and May schedule to further optimize its fleet and re-accommodate customers. Because the timeline for the return to service of the 737 Max is unknown, for planning purposes and to provide customers certainty for booking and travel, Air Canada is removing all 737 MAX aircraft from its schedule until at least July 1, 2019. A summary of schedule changes for April is posted below in the following question and answer: “What is Air Canada doing to reschedule customers?”. Additional schedule changes will be posted as warranted.
- Air Canada's cancellation and rebooking policies are in place with full fee waiver for affected customers.
- We are working to rebook impacted customers as soon as possible.
- Given the magnitude of our 737 MAX operations which on average carry nine to twelve thousand customers per day, customers can expect delays in rebooking and in reaching Air Canada Call Centres.
- If you are travelling within the next 72 hours, please call the number at the top of this page.
- If you booked through a Travel Agent, you may contact them directly for assistance.
If you'd like to make other plans
If you currently have a reservation for a flight that was scheduled to be operated by a Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, we've implemented a policy that makes it possible for you to make voluntary changes to your itinerary within three (3) weeks of your original travel dates.
If you are impacted by this policy, you may contact Air Canada Reservations (1-888-247-2262). If you are travelling in the next 72 hours, please call Air Canada Reservations number at the top of this notice.
If you purchased your ticket with Aeroplan, or Air Canada Vacations or your travel agent, please contact them directly.
*********
March 13, 2019
Air Canada confirmed today that it will comply immediately with Transport Canada's safety notice closing Canadian airspace to Boeing 737 MAX aircraft operations until further notice.
Air Canada's cancellation and rebooking policies are in place with full fee waiver for affected customers. We are working to rebook impacted customers as soon as possible. Given the magnitude of our 737 MAX operations which on average carry nine to twelve thousand customers per day, customers can expect delays in rebooking and in reaching Air Canada Call Centres. Priority will be given to customers travelling within the next 72 hours. We appreciate our customers' patience.
If you'd like to know what type of aircraft you are flying on, simply retrieve your booking from the My Bookings tab, then click on the 'Details' link in the Flight Details section. We also advise you to check the status of your flight before heading to the airport.
We fully support Transport Canada's decision and will continue to work with them towards a resolution of this situation as soon as possible.
Alternate Travel Plans
If you currently have a reservation for a flight operated by a Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, we've implemented a policy that makes it possible for you to make voluntary changes to your itinerary within three (3) weeks of your original travel dates.
If you are impacted by this policy, you may contact Air Canada Reservations (1-888-247-2262).
If you purchased your ticket with AeroplanExternal site which may not meet accessibility guidelines., or Air Canada Vacations or your Travel agent, please contact them directly Some questions you may have are below with our answers, but if you can't find what you need, contact us at 1-888-247-2262, or reach out to us on on FacebookExternal site which may not meet accessibility guidelines. or TwitterExternal site which may not meet accessibility guidelines..
How many Boeing 737 MAX aircraft does Air Canada have?
Air Canada has a fleet of 24 Boeing 737 MAX-8 aircraft, which have been in operation since 2017. We have a total fleet of 400 aircraft (including 24 737MAX), comprising Air Canada mainline, Air Canada Rouge and Air Canada Express aircraft.
Where do the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft fly to?
These aircraft operate flights across North America, to Mexico, the Caribbean, Hawaii, as well as from Atlantic Canada to London Heathrow.
How many Boeing 737 MAX flights are there each day, and how many passengers are affected?
We typically operate approximately 75 Boeing 737 MAX flights daily out of a total schedule of approximately 1,600 daily flights system-wide, representing less than six percent of our total flying.
We have a total fleet of 400 aircraft (including 24 Boeing 737 MAX), comprising Air Canada mainline, Air Canada Rouge and Air Canada Express aircraft.
What is Air Canada doing to reschedule customers?
We are making adjustments to our schedule to minimize the disruption to customers as much as possible, by optimizing the deployment of the rest of our fleet and looking at alternative options, including accommodating customers on other airlines.
As an example of some of our adjustments to Boeing 737 MAX flights cancelled, we have re-scheduled widebody aircraft to serve Hawaii starting today, March 13. Some flights will operate as scheduled with mainline or Air Canada Rouge aircraft, such as on Montreal-Martinique and Montreal-Guadeloupe. Other routes, notably Halifax-London and St. John's-London are cancelled in the short term, with customers being re-routed through our Montreal and Toronto hubs.
What should I do right now?
As changes are finalized in our flight schedule, customers whose flight times or flight numbers have changed can expect to receive an email detailing their updated itinerary. This information is also available in My Bookings on the Air Canada App.
If you are travelling soon, you can also contact us or your travel agent. Please understand that priority is being given to customers travelling within the next 72 hours.
We have also put in place a rebooking policy, space permitting, and without additional fees for affected customers. Given the magnitude of our Boeing 737 MAX operations, which on average carry nine to twelve thousand customers per day, customers can expect delays in rebooking and in reaching Air Canada's Call Centres.
Where can I go to for more information?
If you would like to know what type of aircraft you are flying on, simply retrieve your booking from the My Bookings tab, then click on the 'Details' link in the Flight Details section.
If you are travelling soon, you can contact us, reach out to our social media teams on FacebookExternal site which may not meet accessibility guidelines. or TwitterExternal site which may not meet accessibility guidelines., or call your travel agent.
We also advise you to check the status of your flight before going to the airport.
We thank all of our customers for their patience.
Will Air Canada cover my out-of-pocket expenses such as additional accommodation costs that I may incur as a result of these disruptions?
Our normal protocol for irregular events which are out of our control is in effect. We are regrettably unable to reimburse for such expenses.
****
MONTREAL, March 13, 2019 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada confirmed today that it will comply immediately with Transport Canada's safety notice closing Canadian airspace to Boeing 737 MAX aircraft operations until further notice.
Air Canada's cancellation and rebooking policies are in place with full fee waiver for affected customers. We are working to rebook impacted customers as soon as possible but given the magnitude of our 737 MAX operations which on average carry nine to twelve thousand customers per day, customers can expect delays in rebooking and in reaching Air Canada call centres and we appreciate our customers' patience.
Customers are further advised to check the status of their flight on aircanada.com prior to going to the airport.
We fully support this decision and will continue to work with Transport Canada towards resolution of this situation as soon as possible.
SOURCE Air Canada
For further information: Isabelle Arthur (Montréal), [email protected], 514 422-5788; Peter Fitzpatrick (Toronto), [email protected], 416 263-5576; Angela Mah (Vancouver), [email protected], 604 270-5741; Internet: aircanada.com
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2019...7-MAX-Aircraft
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...to-london.html
Originally Posted by ac.com
Information on Air Canada Halifax-London and St. John’s-London service
March 12, 2019
Due to the UK's Civil Aviation Authority banning all Boeing 737 Max aircraft operations in the U.K. Air Canada has cancelled the following flights:
AC 860 Halifax London-Heathrow on March 12
AC861 London-Halifax on March 13
AC822 St. John’s-London on March 13
AC823London-St. John’s on March 14
We are working to rebook impacted customers as soon as possible through our Montreal, Toronto and Ottawa hubs.
Affected customers may contact Air Canada Reservations to change their flights to another date free of charge.
As well, due to anticipated call volumes, customers can expect delays reaching Air Canada call centres, so we appreciate our customers’ patience.
Air Canada will provide updates as more information becomes available.
March 12, 2019
Due to the UK's Civil Aviation Authority banning all Boeing 737 Max aircraft operations in the U.K. Air Canada has cancelled the following flights:
AC 860 Halifax London-Heathrow on March 12
AC861 London-Halifax on March 13
AC822 St. John’s-London on March 13
AC823London-St. John’s on March 14
We are working to rebook impacted customers as soon as possible through our Montreal, Toronto and Ottawa hubs.
Affected customers may contact Air Canada Reservations to change their flights to another date free of charge.
As well, due to anticipated call volumes, customers can expect delays reaching Air Canada call centres, so we appreciate our customers’ patience.
Air Canada will provide updates as more information becomes available.
Grounding of 737 Max - Effect on AC incl OMNI 767 lease
Mar 12, 2019, 3:06 pm
#121
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: YUL
Programs: AP 1992- , AC SE1MM, NEXUS, GE, TD Visa Infinite Privilege, Fairmont Platinum
Posts: 145
Yes, it would inconvenience a bunch of people... but wreak havoc? It would have less impact than most big weather events... and is more predictable. Any airline in the US and Canada that is not already planning for a grounding of all MAXs is doing a very poor job.
Mar 12, 2019, 3:06 pm
#122
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: YYG
Programs: airlines and hotels and rental cars - oh my!
Posts: 2,997
If the A330 was a brand-new airplane, and if we had two catastrophic crashes under nearly identical circumstances within a five-month span, then yes, there would likely be similar calls to ground it till they find out what the problem is. Just as there were calls to ground the DC-10 following multiple incidents of baggage compartment doors opening in flight.
The decision to ground the Max8 may well involve a level of politics. But it likely also involves a level of caution. Certainly the families of the people who were killed in these two accidents might call that prudent.
The decision to ground the Max8 may well involve a level of politics. But it likely also involves a level of caution. Certainly the families of the people who were killed in these two accidents might call that prudent.
Mar 12, 2019, 3:10 pm
#123
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ideally YOW, but probably not
Programs: AC SE*MM
Posts: 1,827
I would augur in part because the underlying design flaws, both design and software-based, remain entirely unremedied. If in two days they open the black box and find out it was a bird strike or pilot error, they'll go back up.
Hopefully they do ground them permanently, and then we won't have to deal with the tiny washrooms and cramped seats, but that's a whole other issue.
Like say... the Dreamliner?
Hopefully they do ground them permanently, and then we won't have to deal with the tiny washrooms and cramped seats, but that's a whole other issue.
Like say... the Dreamliner?
The unremedied MCAS design issues, which have had fixes in the works for months, may not have anything to do with the ET crash. Acting in advance of any information is completely unprecedented here, but an easy decision to make for the EU.
The FAA / TC flip side? The planes stay up and if it is an MCAS issue then they get grounded.
Mar 12, 2019, 3:37 pm
#126
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: Aeroplan AA
Posts: 249
Bingo. His admirable space qualifications have nothing to do with it - his status as a cabinet minister does.
Mar 12, 2019, 3:42 pm
#127
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: YYT
Programs: AC P25
Posts: 269
I don’t understand why people are so emotional and hysterical over it. Is it so hard to believe that with little to no information readily available, it’s possible it is arguable to both ground or not ground them?
The rabid, blind protection of a corporation (Boeing) is a truly puzzling human behaviour. Do you think Boeing would do the same for you? Not excusing those on the other extreme either, it’s equally puzzling. It’s like politics, the loudest shouters are the extreme partisans who add nothing to public discourse except their own versions of facts.
The rabid, blind protection of a corporation (Boeing) is a truly puzzling human behaviour. Do you think Boeing would do the same for you? Not excusing those on the other extreme either, it’s equally puzzling. It’s like politics, the loudest shouters are the extreme partisans who add nothing to public discourse except their own versions of facts.
Mar 12, 2019, 3:49 pm
#128
Join Date: May 2014
Location: YYJ/YYT
Programs: AC 75K (*G), NEXUS
Posts: 652
How many flights a day in USA and Canada? How many on MAXs?
Yes, it would inconvenience a bunch of people... but wreak havoc? It would have less impact than most big weather events... and is more predictable. Any airline in the US and Canada that is not already planning for a grounding of all MAXs is doing a very poor job.
Yes, it would inconvenience a bunch of people... but wreak havoc? It would have less impact than most big weather events... and is more predictable. Any airline in the US and Canada that is not already planning for a grounding of all MAXs is doing a very poor job.
Mar 12, 2019, 3:52 pm
#129
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ideally YOW, but probably not
Programs: AC SE*MM
Posts: 1,827
my point is since ultimately this is a political decision- who makes such a decision matters - and speaks volumes to me that the Minister without more information is not falling for hysteria- Minister needs to know nothing about 73, the judgement call is around the integrity of the entire regulatory structure- either the rules matter on how evidence based decisions occur, or industry is in for serious fall-out long-term every time anything happens - not a way to run government to act like “ chicken little “
The EU is not making an evidence based decision here, they are falling for hysteria. But since there are not a lot of 737 MAX in the air this a decision that is cheap politically in the EU. In Canada / the US this is a much more politically expensive decision, and they are waiting for any actual evidence to base a decision on instead of hysteria.
The rules need to matter and evidence based decisions need to matter. If this is another faulty AoA sensor leading to runaway trim issues (which a green crew somehow managed to fail to override despite the knowledge of Lion Air) then they need to look seriously at grounding. If this is another unrelated issue but one that could occur again then they need to look seriously at grounding. But making grounding decisions in the admitted absence of any information at all is a very slippery slope.
To quote the FAA: "External reports are drawing similarities between this accident and the Lion Air Flight 610 accident on October 29, 2018. However, this investigation has just begun and to date we have not been provided data to draw any conclusions or take any actions." Can't say it any better than that.
Mar 12, 2019, 4:11 pm
#131
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 56,449
Another plea to try as much as possible to save the discussion for this thread to the effects on AC for jurisdictions that have banned the 737 MAX and take the larger issue of the aircraft itself to the other thread on the topic which is here. More intermingling of the topics between these thread will see posts moved, deleted or a thread merger.
tcook052
Ac forum moderator
tcook052
Ac forum moderator
Mar 12, 2019, 4:12 pm
#132
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ideally YOW, but probably not
Programs: AC SE*MM
Posts: 1,827
Sure. But if you are for grounding with "little to no information readily available" you're admitting that a) regulators should ground all planes of a given type any time there is an unexplained crash of that type and b) making decisions on airworthiness based on "little to no information" is a good idea. I just disagree with those basic assumptions.
The rabid, blind protection of a corporation (Boeing) is a truly puzzling human behaviour. Do you think Boeing would do the same for you? Not excusing those on the other extreme either, it’s equally puzzling. It’s like politics, the loudest shouters are the extreme partisans who add nothing to public discourse except their own versions of facts.
Boeing doesn't make the decision to ground the 737 MAX, the regulators do. I don't see anyone running around defending Boeing, I'm certainly not. Personally I'd be making the same arguments no matter the manufacturer of aircraft in question.
Mar 12, 2019, 4:26 pm
#133
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: YYC
Programs: Air Canada SE100K, Westjet Platinum, Marriott Platinum Elite, NEXUS
Posts: 144
Re Comments about Garneau being an astronaut and how that has nothing to do with the crisis at hand - you are missing the point.
Most people, including many on this forum apparently, make knee-jerk decisions. Panic and lack of information is the enemy. It will cause you to make bad decisions, and bad decisions will lead to more bad decisions. Ask a pilot.
Garneau has been trained not to panic when confronted with a crisis. Having been an astronaut, he has been trained to analyze the facts and make a decision without emotion. He will not allow group-think to make it for him.
Unlike the hysteria in this forum and on Airliners.net, we have to assume he will govern himself accordingly while dealing with this crisis. I say this because after the last few weeks, Trudeau will not dare force another Minister to do something he/she believes is wrong. Trudeau will be leaving this to Garneau.
Whatever decision Garneau makes, I am confident he will make it based on facts and not politics. I say this as someone who normally does not support his Party.
Most people, including many on this forum apparently, make knee-jerk decisions. Panic and lack of information is the enemy. It will cause you to make bad decisions, and bad decisions will lead to more bad decisions. Ask a pilot.
Garneau has been trained not to panic when confronted with a crisis. Having been an astronaut, he has been trained to analyze the facts and make a decision without emotion. He will not allow group-think to make it for him.
Unlike the hysteria in this forum and on Airliners.net, we have to assume he will govern himself accordingly while dealing with this crisis. I say this because after the last few weeks, Trudeau will not dare force another Minister to do something he/she believes is wrong. Trudeau will be leaving this to Garneau.
Whatever decision Garneau makes, I am confident he will make it based on facts and not politics. I say this as someone who normally does not support his Party.
Mar 12, 2019, 5:04 pm
#135
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: YYT
Programs: M-Bonvoy Platinum Elite, Aeroplan 50K, DragonPass, AMEX MR, NEXUS
Posts: 1,715
my point is since ultimately this is a political decision- who makes such a decision matters - and speaks volumes to me that the Minister without more information is not falling for hysteria- Minister needs to know nothing about 73, the judgement call is around the integrity of the entire regulatory structure- either the rules matter on how evidence based decisions occur, or industry is in for serious fall-out long-term every time anything happens - not a way to run government to act like “ chicken little “
I agree that evidence is key in making a decision, but as of now, the evidence does not exist to support either argument. I know the ramifications of such a decision would be less than ideal, but these circumstances call for such a move. As I stated earlier, I believe that until evidence can prove that nothing is wrong with these airplanes, a full-scale grounding is the only option.
The key point to take home:
Evidence may prove that nothing is wrong with the 737 MAX, or it will prove that they have serious issues. Until we know the answer, it is best to keep them on the ground.