Air Canada OTP Getting Worse?
Feb 16, 2019, 9:36 am
#76
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,009
Yesterday's AC63 delay was result of a maintenance issue requiring an a/c swap.
Today AC64 will arrive back in YVR at 15:30.
The same fin is to operate AC118 to YYZ at 16:00.
Even the Asian carriers can't turn a 787 that fast.
How long until a lurker gets the time updated for AC118?
And to rub salt on the wound, AC118 has an optimistic block time of 4:06.
Feb 16, 2019, 12:42 pm
#77
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,354
563 SFO-YVR had a 30 minute delay today due to SFO baggage issues.
Door closed on time but we had to wait for bags.
Door closed on time but we had to wait for bags.
Feb 17, 2019, 12:21 am
#78
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
I have been monitoring the abysmal OTP of AC 063 (YVR-ICN) and it seems to be delayed an hour or more pretty much every single day (5 hours yesterday).
Then I look at the inbound and notice that for today anyway, the inbound is to arrive in YVR at 10:40 and AC 63 is scheduled to depart 12:05.
Assuming the inbound actually lands on time, in what universe will it happen for AC to : i) disembark a fully-loaded 789 (298 PAX plus crew) ii) get the bird cleaned, iii) fix any maintenance issues, including 15 minutes per deflated seat iv) get it fully catered v) Get the crew on board and ready vi) fully board the plane and vii) push back..... all in 1 hour and 25 minutes???? The departure time of 12:05 doesn't stand a chance.
Then I look at the inbound and notice that for today anyway, the inbound is to arrive in YVR at 10:40 and AC 63 is scheduled to depart 12:05.
Assuming the inbound actually lands on time, in what universe will it happen for AC to : i) disembark a fully-loaded 789 (298 PAX plus crew) ii) get the bird cleaned, iii) fix any maintenance issues, including 15 minutes per deflated seat iv) get it fully catered v) Get the crew on board and ready vi) fully board the plane and vii) push back..... all in 1 hour and 25 minutes???? The departure time of 12:05 doesn't stand a chance.
Feb 17, 2019, 1:08 am
#79
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
I understand its winter and the delays that can cause. I have been monitoring the abysmal OTP of AC 063 (YVR-ICN) and it seems to be delayed an hour or more pretty much every single day (5 hours yesterday).
Then I look at the inbound and notice that for today anyway, the inbound is to arrive in YVR at 10:40 and AC 63 is scheduled to depart 12:05.
Assuming the inbound actually lands on time, in what universe will it happen for AC to : i) disembark a fully-loaded 789 (298 PAX plus crew) ii) get the bird cleaned, iii) fix any maintenance issues, including 15 minutes per deflated seat iv) get it fully catered v) Get the crew on board and ready vi) fully board the plane and vii) push back..... all in 1 hour and 25 minutes???? The departure time of 12:05 doesn't stand a chance.
Boarding time is listed at 11:20 am. The inbound arrives at 10:40 am.... So 40 minutes to complete steps i to v above just seems unrealistic. If the plane arrive 15 minutes 'late' (ie still 'On Time" by AC standards), that leaves only 25 minutes to complete steps i to v above.
Is seems to me it was not always like this...
Is AC's dismal OTP simply a result of their hyper-active schedule??
Then I look at the inbound and notice that for today anyway, the inbound is to arrive in YVR at 10:40 and AC 63 is scheduled to depart 12:05.
Assuming the inbound actually lands on time, in what universe will it happen for AC to : i) disembark a fully-loaded 789 (298 PAX plus crew) ii) get the bird cleaned, iii) fix any maintenance issues, including 15 minutes per deflated seat iv) get it fully catered v) Get the crew on board and ready vi) fully board the plane and vii) push back..... all in 1 hour and 25 minutes???? The departure time of 12:05 doesn't stand a chance.
Boarding time is listed at 11:20 am. The inbound arrives at 10:40 am.... So 40 minutes to complete steps i to v above just seems unrealistic. If the plane arrive 15 minutes 'late' (ie still 'On Time" by AC standards), that leaves only 25 minutes to complete steps i to v above.
Is seems to me it was not always like this...
Is AC's dismal OTP simply a result of their hyper-active schedule??
Yesterday's AC63 delay was result of a maintenance issue requiring an a/c swap.
Today AC64 will arrive back in YVR at 15:30.
The same fin is to operate AC118 to YYZ at 16:00.
Even the Asian carriers can't turn a 787 that fast.
How long until a lurker gets the time updated for AC118?
And to rub salt on the wound, AC118 has an optimistic block time of 4:06.
Today AC64 will arrive back in YVR at 15:30.
The same fin is to operate AC118 to YYZ at 16:00.
Even the Asian carriers can't turn a 787 that fast.
How long until a lurker gets the time updated for AC118?
And to rub salt on the wound, AC118 has an optimistic block time of 4:06.
I've been monitoring the very abysmal AC 63 because of my long series of abysmal AC 18 Non-OT adventures in 2018 (some caused by AC 17).
I was recently scheduled on AC 63 with an onward connection at over 2.5 hours later. I checked inbound on the app, saw it was AC 64 on that day. It was running a few hours late. I then checked AC 64's inbound at it was AC 63 caught in the YVR baggage mess. OK, I thought maybe AC would swap.
Well, no, they did not. My AC 63 went out almost 3 hours late and arrived ONE HOUR after my onward had already departed.
Thing is, I saw this train wreck coming, so I called AC and pointed out the obvious and made the changes.
The problem is, I still have this trip but at a later date.
AC 61 is scheduled ot land in ICN at 17:35. AC 62 is scheduled to depart at 18:55. 1hr 20 min turn time.
AC 63 is scheduled ot land in ICN at 16:20. AC 64 is scheduled to depart at 17:55. 1hr 35 min turn time.
I'll assume someone thinks those turn times on the ground are reasonable. Except, when AC 63 is 3 hours late, or 5 hours late as @Plumber notes, and pax off 64 will miss their onwards and the flight this aircraft will fly on arrival in YVR may be late unless there is another aircraft to swap in.
As for OTP and grooming, it is fascinating to be standing at the gate in YVR for a flight to NRT, where there is no mention of a delay, and watch - along with the crew - as the inbound aircraft shows up late from PVG for e.g., and the pax start deplaning. No way are they turning that around in anything that remotely resembles OT.
I've stood more than once at the gate in TPE, again, with the crew assembled nearby, also waiting for the late inbound and we all watched the pax deplane.
I don't work for AC, I don't work at the airport. I don't know where this mess starts and why turns are so tight and why so many flights are late and I'm not talking about winter issues. Most of the mess I experienced last year was not during winter or thunderstorms.
I have misconnected from the majority of my inbound AC 18's. And those who know me, know that I do my best to avoid anything close to MCT because I know better.
What does AC do when 30 or 40 of us have to connect onward in YVR and have missed our flights? What does AC do when aircraft inbound from Asia meant to turn into AC 116 or 118, then cause those flights to be so late to YYZ that pax connecting onward from there miss their flights - some to Europe etc.
I know that aircraft scheduling is a fine art and requires skill, but there seems to be a hiccup somewhere or perhaps I missed class the day they were teaching about OTP, turn around time, aircraft utilization and connecting pax.
Teach me.
Feb 17, 2019, 3:42 am
#80
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: YOW
Programs: AC-SE100K, AC-3MM, Marriott- LT Titanium, SPG RIP
Posts: 2,959
In today’s case, my flightvto ICN came from NRT and arrived early. So AC 63 left on time and arrived on time for the first time in a couple of weeks!
But that still does not change the fact that AC is not leaving enough time between flights on widebodies.
Feb 17, 2019, 7:22 am
#81
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC 50k 1MM, Marriott LT Titanium Elite
Posts: 3,402
I've been monitoring the very abysmal AC 63 because of my long series of abysmal AC 18 Non-OT adventures in 2018 (some caused by AC 17).
I was recently scheduled on AC 63 with an onward connection at over 2.5 hours later. I checked inbound on the app, saw it was AC 64 on that day. It was running a few hours late. I then checked AC 64's inbound at it was AC 63 caught in the YVR baggage mess. OK, I thought maybe AC would swap.
Well, no, they did not. My AC 63 went out almost 3 hours late and arrived ONE HOUR after my onward had already departed.
Thing is, I saw this train wreck coming, so I called AC and pointed out the obvious and made the changes.
The problem is, I still have this trip but at a later date.
AC 61 is scheduled ot land in ICN at 17:35. AC 62 is scheduled to depart at 18:55. 1hr 20 min turn time.
AC 63 is scheduled ot land in ICN at 16:20. AC 64 is scheduled to depart at 17:55. 1hr 35 min turn time.
I'll assume someone thinks those turn times on the ground are reasonable. Except, when AC 63 is 3 hours late, or 5 hours late as @Plumber notes, and pax off 64 will miss their onwards and the flight this aircraft will fly on arrival in YVR may be late unless there is another aircraft to swap in.
As for OTP and grooming, it is fascinating to be standing at the gate in YVR for a flight to NRT, where there is no mention of a delay, and watch - along with the crew - as the inbound aircraft shows up late from PVG for e.g., and the pax start deplaning. No way are they turning that around in anything that remotely resembles OT.
I've stood more than once at the gate in TPE, again, with the crew assembled nearby, also waiting for the late inbound and we all watched the pax deplane.
I don't work for AC, I don't work at the airport. I don't know where this mess starts and why turns are so tight and why so many flights are late and I'm not talking about winter issues. Most of the mess I experienced last year was not during winter or thunderstorms.
I have misconnected from the majority of my inbound AC 18's. And those who know me, know that I do my best to avoid anything close to MCT because I know better.
What does AC do when 30 or 40 of us have to connect onward in YVR and have missed our flights? What does AC do when aircraft inbound from Asia meant to turn into AC 116 or 118, then cause those flights to be so late to YYZ that pax connecting onward from there miss their flights - some to Europe etc.
I know that aircraft scheduling is a fine art and requires skill, but there seems to be a hiccup somewhere or perhaps I missed class the day they were teaching about OTP, turn around time, aircraft utilization and connecting pax.
Teach me.
I was recently scheduled on AC 63 with an onward connection at over 2.5 hours later. I checked inbound on the app, saw it was AC 64 on that day. It was running a few hours late. I then checked AC 64's inbound at it was AC 63 caught in the YVR baggage mess. OK, I thought maybe AC would swap.
Well, no, they did not. My AC 63 went out almost 3 hours late and arrived ONE HOUR after my onward had already departed.
Thing is, I saw this train wreck coming, so I called AC and pointed out the obvious and made the changes.
The problem is, I still have this trip but at a later date.
AC 61 is scheduled ot land in ICN at 17:35. AC 62 is scheduled to depart at 18:55. 1hr 20 min turn time.
AC 63 is scheduled ot land in ICN at 16:20. AC 64 is scheduled to depart at 17:55. 1hr 35 min turn time.
I'll assume someone thinks those turn times on the ground are reasonable. Except, when AC 63 is 3 hours late, or 5 hours late as @Plumber notes, and pax off 64 will miss their onwards and the flight this aircraft will fly on arrival in YVR may be late unless there is another aircraft to swap in.
As for OTP and grooming, it is fascinating to be standing at the gate in YVR for a flight to NRT, where there is no mention of a delay, and watch - along with the crew - as the inbound aircraft shows up late from PVG for e.g., and the pax start deplaning. No way are they turning that around in anything that remotely resembles OT.
I've stood more than once at the gate in TPE, again, with the crew assembled nearby, also waiting for the late inbound and we all watched the pax deplane.
I don't work for AC, I don't work at the airport. I don't know where this mess starts and why turns are so tight and why so many flights are late and I'm not talking about winter issues. Most of the mess I experienced last year was not during winter or thunderstorms.
I have misconnected from the majority of my inbound AC 18's. And those who know me, know that I do my best to avoid anything close to MCT because I know better.
What does AC do when 30 or 40 of us have to connect onward in YVR and have missed our flights? What does AC do when aircraft inbound from Asia meant to turn into AC 116 or 118, then cause those flights to be so late to YYZ that pax connecting onward from there miss their flights - some to Europe etc.
I know that aircraft scheduling is a fine art and requires skill, but there seems to be a hiccup somewhere or perhaps I missed class the day they were teaching about OTP, turn around time, aircraft utilization and connecting pax.
Teach me.
Here is is my conclusion: AC just doesn’t care. They make more money than they lose by scheduling too tight turnarounds. OTP crap is not a surprise to them it is an expected outcome. Run everything right on the edge and if it goes sideways it is just pax that are mad. And they don’t count. They won’t change because from AC’s perspective the whole thing is working optimally.
Feb 17, 2019, 7:24 am
#82
Join Date: May 2013
Location: YYT/YYC/TPE
Programs: AC SE, UA, National Exec Elite, Nexus, GE
Posts: 1,810
So far none of my AC flights in February arrived on time. In fact, when looking at my spreadsheet for 2019 flights, AC has an OTP of 41%. Average delay for my AC flights taken this year is 43 minutes (on 17 late flights)!
Last edited by YYT82; Feb 17, 2019 at 7:48 am
Feb 17, 2019, 12:23 pm
#83
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,126
I've been in similar situations over the last year, but I've always been told: "We can't do anything until the computer says that your flight will be delayed." So even when I see the train wreck coming, all I can do is watch it happen.
Feb 17, 2019, 12:48 pm
#84
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,009
I flew YVR-YYZ last year. Departed late because pilots were deadheading in from YYC.
YYC weather was less than ideal.
Maybe if we had a crew pairing thread it would help shed light on some of these issues.
Feb 17, 2019, 12:48 pm
#85
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: YYG
Programs: airlines and hotels and rental cars - oh my!
Posts: 3,000
Since then, 7 out of 7 AC flights have all been delayed, by anywhere from 40 minutes to four hours.
Over the same period, 3 of 10 WestJet flights have arrived late (30 minutes to 2 hours) while the other 7 were either on time or early.
During the same period, 4 of 4 Delta flights were either on time or early.
Feb 17, 2019, 4:12 pm
#89
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Feb 17, 2019, 4:49 pm
#90
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Canada
Programs: Marriott Plat; Air Canada E75K; Westjet Platinum
Posts: 1,161
My guess is February OTP will be below 30%. 8 out of 10 flights so far for me this month has been late or twice cancelled. The turn time is like they are operating in the middle of summer. At YYC, I have missed my tight connections twice last week because there is no ground crew to usher the aircriaft or connect the bridge when we arrived. Had to wait 5-10 mins each time at night after 7 pm for ground crew.