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Woman says Air Canada unfairly kicked her off plane

Woman says Air Canada unfairly kicked her off plane

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Old Oct 11, 18, 10:43 pm
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by tomvancouver View Post
This incident - irrespective of rights or wrongs, argues strongly in favor of real competition in our airspace.
Whatever happened to the "customer is always right" approach to running a business?

Do all the delayed passengers on this flight have any recourse? of course not, but if you think about it, they should.
Well the customer is always right is not really good business -- (who said that Marshall Field?) I have ahem nicely fired clients that were not worth it -- unreasonable, unrealistic, --.but I did it nicely.

The majority of passengers want low cost (look at all the dreadful OTAs with the word cheap in them) -- and then business run on the priority of shareholder wealth maximization -- and look at what we have today.

And yes, I would be furious if I was a passenger on the flight. I would have been angry at the passenger, the FA, and Air Canada. And would have nothing but my anger and a late arrival.
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Old Oct 11, 18, 10:50 pm
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Originally Posted by tomvancouver View Post
This incident - irrespective of rights or wrongs, argues strongly in favor of real competition in our airspace. Whatever happened to the "customer is always right" approach to running a business?
Do all the delayed passengers on this flight have any recourse? of course not, but if you think about it, they should.
The customer is always right view is a myth. Customers can be in the wrong. Some clients can even try to provoke a confrontation. Anyway, in today's environment of airline security, arguing with an FA will usually end with an inconvenience to the pax involved.

Originally Posted by Sunny Day View Post
Not that it matters whether you sit in Y or J but on two recent flights in business class, I found garbage, left over wrappers, used napkins in pockets and inside armrests. Pretty gross already but when I picked them up and handed them to the FA, there was no apology or even expression of sympathy. Just a "I will take that" from the FA - like it is normal thing - they are not even surprised by it anymore.
Indeed. My recent long haul flights have started out with significant debris in my seating space. Food, tissues, broken items, sticky trays and arm rests. I don't believe that equipment cleanliness is important to Air Canada. Perhaps it is time CBC Marketplace did an expose again to show the amount of fecal material left on seats and arm rests, or respiratory and GI illness viruses found on tray tables and areas where food is prepared.
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Old Oct 11, 18, 11:54 pm
  #48  
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Originally Posted by arttravel View Post
Air Canada puts minimal money into cleanliness. Do they outsource this like many airlines and pay as little as possible? That would be my guess,
This has been mentioned a few times.

Without making any claims about mainline (because I have certainly required wet towels to clean pods), the incident in question was on Jazz. Jazz does not clean the aircraft between every flight. I have never found trash in mainline J upon boarding, but I've found it numerous times in Jazz Y.

Is this relevant to the situation? Not really. The trash is, in my opinion, an insignificant part of this. And AC pays Jazz, so they should set certain terms. But expecting a Jazz aircraft to be as clean as a mainline aircraft is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
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Old Oct 12, 18, 2:53 am
  #49  
 
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Originally Posted by DCP2016 View Post
"North America's best airline" my you know what. First we almost cause the worst catastrophe in aviation by landing on a taxiway and then we bully and kick off grandma.

Air Canada makes airlines like Spirit & Allegiant look like Singapore Airlines.
"Are there supposed to be planes on the runway?" That was quite something. Not a huge fan of AC lately, sadly, so my business goes elsewhere even though the competition isn't perfect. We'll see, I'm tempted to try the herringbone seats once.
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Old Oct 12, 18, 6:25 am
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Originally Posted by lallied View Post


I donít disagree but not suggesting suffering silently. Just complaining later when not powerless and at the mercy of someone who can have you removed from plane.

The only loser here is pax. Nothing will change because of this. The planes wonít be cleaner. The pilots will still be fatigued.

If she had just written in wouldnít have changed either. But at least she wouldnít be stressed, upset, late (r) getting home, and out of pocket.

And immigration might be clean but give them a hard time and maybe you donít get in country or maybe get to spend more time than you would like in an interview room.



But that's precisely the problem. Would anyone here pay for a meal, accept and eat it when it shows up undercooked, and then write a letter later so that they don't get booted out/go hungry. That airline staff can remove passengers for having the temerity to complain is a big part of the problem.

If AC had cleaned the plane, no problem. If the FA had taken the garbage, no problem. Passenger complains about not getting what they paid for. Big problem. Yeah, it's easier to walk away and send a letter to some automated machine. Will the FA ever hear about it again? Probably not.

As for immigration etc, for it to be comparable, there has to be a service delivery failure first. If anyone goes around picking a fight without service delivery issues, that's their problem. I dare say immigration folk are trained to higher customer service standards than whatever transpired here. Probably because they don't work in a culture that views Y pax with contempt.
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Old Oct 12, 18, 6:40 am
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Whether they like it or not, front line workers with the airline are in the customer service industry. We don't truly know about the details of this event, but there is one thing I know; That FA should have taken the garbage. Full stop!
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Old Oct 12, 18, 7:58 am
  #52  
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Originally Posted by yulred View Post


But that's precisely the problem. Would anyone here pay for a meal, accept and eat it when it shows up undercooked, and then write a letter later so that they don't get booted out/go hungry. That airline staff can remove passengers for having the temerity to complain is a big part of the problem.

If AC had cleaned the plane, no problem. If the FA had taken the garbage, no problem. Passenger complains about not getting what they paid for. Big problem. Yeah, it's easier to walk away and send a letter to some automated machine. Will the FA ever hear about it again? Probably not.

As for immigration etc, for it to be comparable, there has to be a service delivery failure first. If anyone goes around picking a fight without service delivery issues, that's their problem. I dare say immigration folk are trained to higher customer service standards than whatever transpired here. Probably because they don't work in a culture that views Y pax with contempt.
In fact I know that @ACYYZ/SD has suggested on FT before that your first action upon having a concern should be to inform the FA/SD, so that corrective action can be taken right away.
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Old Oct 12, 18, 8:44 am
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Originally Posted by canopus27 View Post
In fact I know that @ACYYZ/SD has suggested on FT before that your first action upon having a concern should be to inform the FA/SD, so that corrective action can be taken right away.
I stand by that. Many if not most issues are recoverable in the here and now.
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Old Oct 12, 18, 9:40 am
  #54  
 
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Once the SD was informed of the garbage situation in this case, what did the SD do? Nothing? Agree with the FA? Did the SD intervene to de-escalate?

To compare my AC J experience to EVA in J, YVR-TPE, the seat and every inch of space around it was cleaned, wiped down, checked for garbage before take off. The standard for AC is just so low these days.
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Old Oct 12, 18, 9:43 am
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Originally Posted by yulred View Post


But that's precisely the problem. Would anyone here pay for a meal, accept and eat it when it shows up undercooked, and then write a letter later so that they don't get booted out/go hungry. That airline staff can remove passengers for having the temerity to complain is a big part of the problem.

If AC had cleaned the plane, no problem. If the FA had taken the garbage, no problem. Passenger complains about not getting what they paid for. Big problem. Yeah, it's easier to walk away and send a letter to some automated machine. Will the FA ever hear about it again? Probably not.

As for immigration etc, for it to be comparable, there has to be a service delivery failure first. If anyone goes around picking a fight without service delivery issues, that's their problem. I dare say immigration folk are trained to higher customer service standards than whatever transpired here. Probably because they don't work in a culture that views Y pax with contempt.
My last comment but will read yours with interest.

I agree itís wrong - all aspects. But if you get a bad meal you can not eat and leave and not pay. The worst case scenario is going elsewhere.

In Europe incidents like this regularly end up in court with pax expected to cover costs of diversion as well as all the other issues. Thatís a big threat if you donít have witnesses.

In immigration / security I have had agents being rude / bullying / physically push me around. Fisticuffs with them ? Wonít help.

Should anyone have power they can abuse without recourse ? Of course not

Did this help? No.

Documenting and litigating, maybe.

This is conjecture though. We donít know what really happened as there do seem to be some inconsistencies in story.


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Old Oct 12, 18, 9:47 am
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Just curious, what would happen if 10 other passengers spoke up on the spot against this FA loudly and backed up the old lady and demanded that they don't divert the plane and told the FA to back off as they are witnesses. I think the FA would think twice about making it more than it is. Like a bit of passengers mutiny against this FA? Thoughts?
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Old Oct 12, 18, 9:52 am
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Sunny Day View Post
Just curious, what would happen if 10 other passengers spoke up on the spot against this FA loudly and backed up the old lady and demanded that they don't divert the plane and told the FA to back off as they are witnesses. I think the FA would think twice about making it more than it is. Like a bit of passengers mutiny against this FA? Thoughts?
Hang them on the tall mast when in high sea.

Proper way to deal with mutiny surely?
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Old Oct 12, 18, 9:54 am
  #58  
 
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Originally Posted by Sunny Day View Post
Just curious, what would happen if 10 other passengers spoke up on the spot against this FA loudly and backed up the old lady and demanded that they don't divert the plane and told the FA to back off as they are witnesses. I think the FA would think twice about making it more than it is. Like a bit of passengers mutiny against this FA? Thoughts?
I don't know what would happen, but the end result would be 11 pax getting arrested.
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Old Oct 12, 18, 10:02 am
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Sunny Day View Post
Once the SD was informed of the garbage situation in this case, what did the SD do? Nothing? Agree with the FA? Did the SD intervene to de-escalate?

To compare my AC J experience to EVA in J, YVR-TPE, the seat and every inch of space around it was cleaned, wiped down, checked for garbage before take off. The standard for AC is just so low these days.
This was Jazz, no larger than a Q400.

If you want to compare grooming standards on AC J to BR J on a 777 flying a 12-hour flight, fine. There's a thread for that. I'm sure BR will still win, but AC "tries" to clean their aircraft before those flights.

Jazz flights are intentionally not cleaned at every turn, making this sort of incident much more likely.

Likewise, there is no SD. There were at most 2 FAs. The only one in authority who could de-escalate is the captain.
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Old Oct 12, 18, 10:20 am
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Well if I am the captain, if 10 other passengers are telling me that my FA is being unreasonable, I would question how "truthful" my FA is about the veracity of the need to kick off one passenger. Americans are loud and bold and they will stand up when they see B.S. and call out B.S. They wouldn't put up with this bullying by the FA. Canadians on the other hand will just watch and be quiet.
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