Sunny Day

For what? For speaking up for another passenger? What justification would they have?

RangerNS

Not following the commands of the crew. And being an angry mob. One FOTSG may not be a threat to the aircraft, but an angry mob sure is.

If I was a pilot and heard that 10 PAX were fighting with my crew, however wrong my crew may be, I'd be looking for the closest highway to land on ; my cognitive load would be too high to locate my copy of Roberts let alone process any truthyness of the situation.

canadiancow

Yup.

If 10 passengers wanted to talk to me, I'd barricade the door and land asap.

CZAMFlyer

Funny how nobody here seems to have commented upon the following from the article: He thinks video surveillance on flights would eliminate the he said-she said nature of an investigation like this one.“Having some form of surveillance would be very important, both for the passengers and for the flight attendants,” Lukacs said.

I'd be receptive to the unblinking eye only after cameras are installed in cockpits.

24left

Agree on all points.

Agree.

For reference, we can look at the videos that we taken by the pax onboard while UA pax Dr. Dao was bloodied and unconscious and being dragged up the aisle of his aircraft by those airport rent-a-thugs under orders from the crew. IIRC, we can see the faces of the pax in their seats, many were panicked, many were yelling to stop, many were filming this.

It is both absurd and sad that flying has become such that any FA can pull the "feel threatened" because a elderly pax asked to have garbage removed, and rather than find a way to de-escalate (as mentioned in posts above), we instead have a diversion, the involvement of the police, AC corporate security and the media.

It really doesn't matter now whether granny was right or wrong, or whether the FA was in a mood. I have flown with mostly amazing AC cabin crew but the few arrogant, moody, rude and pissy ones are the ones who made the long flights far worse for all of us, not just the pax, but the rest of the cabin crew team.

The fact that the police did not file charges and granny can still fly, tells me this was handled poorly by the FA and by AC. I understand why the pilots made their decision to return/land.

​​​​​​​Going forward, have all parties to this preventable mess learned anything?

songsc

I am just glad that I can cut back my NA travel and I have other options when flying internationally.

mapleg

I remember a few US flights on United where the FA tore into and ripped the pax telling them point blank that anyone who did not do as she immediately commanded would be arrested on the spot and in fact she would tell the captain to stop taxiing down the runway and go back to the gate. There had been some grumbling by certain pax on issues related to a delay and she read them the riot act. They sat there meek as church mice. No one jumped up and yelled BS.

MasterGeek

The threshold for FA and gate/check-in agent to justify an adverse action against a customer should be raised, in favour of customers. The threshold should be similar to the threshold given to a retail store clerk (at a Hudson's Bay store for example) before they can comfront, expell, ban or call the police on a walk-in customer.

YEG_SE4Life

What exactly is that threshold, in each of these 2 situations?

MasterGeek

My idea would be, among other things: illegal behaviour, offensive language (as per Canadian Broadcasting Standards Council) and physical abuse against crew/agents/passengers. But not merely "arguing". That's how it would work in a Hudson's Bay store, no ?

YEG_SE4Life

I don't know how it works in a department store. I also don't know whether abusive language was used in this particular case.

Now, to suggest that the bar should be moved, is a suggestion that it isn't in the right place. What is the current criteria with Air Canada?

tcook052

Not according to the passenger nor eyewitness.

YEG_SE4Life

Agreed, but we are given limited information. I have completed many incident investigations and you would be surprised to know how conflicting, even independant witnesses can be.

KenHamer

In Air Canada's defence I'm sure their systems will prove the passenger was not actually on the flight.

24left

Love the click-bait headline because his last line is: "Air Canada accuses her of kicking the flight attendant, which she denies, and says she any ban on her flying the airline is not ongoing. A witness corroborates her version of events." Popcorn time for his American audience.

His opening line is a point made in this AC FT thread.




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