I'm thinking about having some better-than-marker-on-sticker name tags done up for https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-...flight-do.html
I don't know what a good style is. Stickers tend to work well because they go on anything, whereas a clip doesn't work as well on a t-shirt. Pin-backed tags can make holes, etc. I guess a lanyard could work too? Any suggestions? |
Originally Posted by canadiancow
(Post 29522174)
I'm thinking about having some better-than-marker-on-sticker name tags done up for https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-...flight-do.html
I don't know what a good style is. Stickers tend to work well because they go on anything, whereas a clip doesn't work as well on a t-shirt. Pin-backed tags can make holes, etc. I guess a lanyard could work too? Any suggestions? |
If only group project grades are allocated by the amount of work each member had done, LOL.
|
Originally Posted by Jumper Jack
(Post 29522765)
If only group project grades are allocated by the amount of work each member had done, LOL.
I had 3 groups where the contribution was like 90% vs 10% or worse. |
Originally Posted by Jumper Jack
(Post 29522765)
If only group project grades are allocated by the amount of work each member had done, LOL.
Originally Posted by songsc
(Post 29522885)
If people fill out that contribution table honestly. When I was in second year I herad there was literally a fight about filling contribution table. Someone I know put 100% for herself and 0% for her partner, her partner crossed out everything then wrote down the opposite, and the drama began. I had 3 groups where the contribution was like 90% vs 10% or worse. Hated group work. Now of course it’s so much better at work because no one freeloads :rolleyes: |
Sometimes group projects are about getting the job done, not getting recognition for your share. Carrying the dead-weight is also a valuable real-world skill.
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Originally Posted by smallmj
(Post 29523159)
Sometimes group projects are about getting the job done, not getting recognition for your share. Carrying the dead-weight is also a valuable real-world skill.
muppets graduate. Was amusing when we hired one of said muppets within my previous company. He no longer works there. |
Originally Posted by jc94
(Post 29523451)
Yeah, for those that are good. It’s also how some real muppets graduate. Was amusing when we hired one of said muppets within my previous company. He no longer works there. |
Originally Posted by smallmj
(Post 29523515)
In my program, the muppets all disappeared during 3rd year - even with group work. Part of that was that the rest of us wouldn't work with them, so they ended up in a group together. It helped that we had the choice to work in groups of our own choice or solo. I can't imagine having to work with them in an assigned group.
At least two of the guys in my team were competent, one was poor, two were useless. I think one was on his 10th year (year 2 of the course). But as a foreign student someone was paying full cost for him to attend so the school didn’t care. It says something that my first year had over 300 students and 80 made graduation. My personal favourite was the guy who failed year 1 Java with 5%. 15% of the exam was True / False questions. God I’m glad to be done with all that. |
I never had assigned groups in University, though my wife did in the M.Ed. course she took last fall. She was lucky, since there was one really useless person in the class.
My daughter described a group she worked with in a High School art course in an interesting way last week. She was the ideas person, another girl was really good at cutting things out for a collage, and the third was moral support. |
Originally Posted by Jumper Jack
(Post 29522765)
If only group project grades are allocated by the amount of work each member had done, LOL.
1. Negative productivity. I had to spend 30 minutes explaining to someone how to do a task I knew would take me 4 hours, but given that I was intimately familiar with the codebase, and he was brand new (to the codebase, not to software/Java/Android/the company), I knew it would take him longer. He spent 4 days, and did it in such a bad way I had to rip it out and rewrite it. I probably spent 6 hours in total on this, for work that would have taken me 4 hours without the other guy. Technically he did 4 days and I did 6 hours. But the end result was the same as if he hadn't been there and I'd spent 4 hours on it. How would you fill out your contribution table? 2. What do you do when you can work 10x faster with equal or better quality? They stay up late, putting in 80 hours, and I do it in a day. It sure looks like I'm not working as hard (because I'm not), but the tasks were evenly split.
Originally Posted by smallmj
(Post 29523515)
In my program, the muppets all disappeared during 3rd year - even with group work. Part of that was that the rest of us wouldn't work with them, so they ended up in a group together. It helped that we had the choice to work in groups of our own choice or solo. I can't imagine having to work with them in an assigned group.
In middle school, there was a project where I did virtually none of the work. I felt bad enough about it that it never happened again. |
Originally Posted by Jumper Jack
(Post 29522765)
If only group project grades are allocated by the amount of work each member had done, LOL.
Originally Posted by canadiancow
(Post 29524637)
That seems to suggest quality over quantity. I've worked with two types of people that break this assumption:
1. Negative productivity. I had to spend 30 minutes explaining to someone how to do a task I knew would take me 4 hours, but given that I was intimately familiar with the codebase, and he was brand new (to the codebase, not to software/Java/Android/the company), I knew it would take him longer. He spent 4 days, and did it in such a bad way I had to rip it out and rewrite it. I probably spent 6 hours in total on this, for work that would have taken me 4 hours without the other guy. Technically he did 4 days and I did 6 hours. But the end result was the same as if he hadn't been there and I'd spent 4 hours on it. How would you fill out your contribution table? 2. What do you do when you can work 10x faster with equal or better quality? They stay up late, putting in 80 hours, and I do it in a day. It sure looks like I'm not working as hard (because I'm not), but the tasks were evenly split. I'm not a manager...yet....but as a manager, I always wonder what they do in these sorta situations? Most of the time - i've seen them do nothing.....
Originally Posted by canadiancow
(Post 29524637)
I remember one course at UW. Group projects. For the first project, I worked with a guy I didn't really know. I ended up doing 90% of the work. Whatever. For the second project, I just didn't talk to him. I worked on it all myself, submitted it early (with just one name), and then the night before it was due, he messaged me and asked when we were going to work on it. I said I'd already finished and submitted it. He was not happy at all. But 6 months later I received an email from him apologizing about the whole situation. So some people do learn.
In middle school, there was a project where I did virtually none of the work. I felt bad enough about it that it never happened again. |
Happy 3.14159 day.
|
Originally Posted by Jumper Jack
(Post 29522765)
If only group project grades are allocated by the amount of work each member had done, LOL.
Groupwork is so important - as others have said, learning how to peer-motivate someone is a skill you will need to use much more (not less) in the wage-slave world. "Just" getting dinged on a project because someone let you down is trivial compared to getting laid off because your product is discontinued or not getting your annual bonus because a colleague F'd up. I would also add that in one class where I did it all, I also was much better prepared for the exam because I had done everything, not just parts of it. It's not always a downside to being the person that does more. |
Originally Posted by canadiancow
(Post 29524637)
1. Negative productivity. I had to spend 30 minutes explaining to someone how to do a task I knew would take me 4 hours, but given that I was intimately familiar with the codebase, and he was brand new (to the codebase, not to software/Java/Android/the company), I knew it would take him longer. He spent 4 days, and did it in such a bad way I had to rip it out and rewrite it. I probably spent 6 hours in total on this, for work that would have taken me 4 hours without the other guy. Technically he did 4 days and I did 6 hours. But the end result was the same as if he hadn't been there and I'd spent 4 hours on it. How would you fill out your contribution table?
Originally Posted by canadiancow
(Post 29524637)
2. What do you do when you can work 10x faster with equal or better quality? They stay up late, putting in 80 hours, and I do it in a day. It sure looks like I'm not working as hard (because I'm not), but the tasks were evenly split.
If someone is new (to the project) they should not have to work stay late, the work should be split. Personally when I split work I take complexity and hours into account. Recently I had 65 small tasks and only one other person free so I took 35 and gave them 30 because I was able to get it done faster.
Originally Posted by canadiancow
(Post 29524637)
I remember one course at UW. Group projects. For the first project, I worked with a guy I didn't really know. I ended up doing 90% of the work. Whatever. For the second project, I just didn't talk to him. I worked on it all myself, submitted it early (with just one name), and then the night before it was due, he messaged me and asked when we were going to work on it. I said I'd already finished and submitted it. He was not happy at all. But 6 months later I received an email from him apologizing about the whole situation. So some people do learn.
In middle school, there was a project where I did virtually none of the work. I felt bad enough about it that it never happened again.
Originally Posted by flyquiet
(Post 29524778)
I do that. It is not impossible. I don't ask students to "rate" each other, but I ask them what each member of the group did. Group members should not be duplicating the exact same contribution and differences are expected, and some people rate different kinds of contributions as "less", simply because they don't know what goes into it. However, I tend to find the the students who cannot describe what others did are also the same people who are described by others as "didn't do much" and I do give them lower marks on the group project.
Groupwork is so important - as others have said, learning how to peer-motivate someone is a skill you will need to use much more (not less) in the wage-slave world. "Just" getting dinged on a project because someone let you down is trivial compared to getting laid off because your product is discontinued or not getting your annual bonus because a colleague F'd up. I would also add that in one class where I did it all, I also was much better prepared for the exam because I had done everything, not just parts of it. It's not always a downside to being the person that does more. So I blame lazy professors. While an argument could be made that they were trying to emulate the real world be having everything contribute knowing people would do different amounts I just don't buy that being realistic or comparable. Besides in work it's normally exceedingly obvious whom the good and bad performers are. Yes happy 3.141592654 day. Sadly that's by memory. #nerd |
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